Watering Disaster

Leave it alone is all I ask! I have been saying this for years but sadly apart from one/two other trainers I am on my own.Trainers have to accept some of the blame as they seem never to be happy with the ground!For me they should not be allowed interfere,equally racecourse managers should use common sense & not water when good is in the description.Sadly this is not their policy & the recent happenings in Tipperary were a disgrace. It starts at the top & until those in charge take hold of this problem & fine courses who mess up then this debacle will continue as it has done in recent years. Sadly if you have a fast ground horse in this country you are in trouble & may only run in Dundalk where if you are too highly rated you can’t! So then you sell if you are lucky!Enough is enough is it not soft long enough over here? Regards Get

this business of taking no chances by watering to produce ‘’safe ground” is getting out of hand. and it has robbed the public the opportunity to see a wonderful race yesterday had SEA THE STARS lined up, as it transpired i think the occasion became an anti climax. trainers who have horses that would prefer firm ground must be tearing their hair out. it seems it can get very soft in the winter game (witness many a thursday at THURLES / CLONMEL, but it can’t be allowed to get genuinely firm in the summer.
my first few visits to the derby were in 89 old vic / 90 salsabil / 91 / 92 / 93
each of those years the day was very warm and particulatrly 89 & 92/93 the ground was firm to say the least. in general aren’t most horses on the flat bred to prefer firmish ground ? the irony is that ted walsh pointed out that there were no less injuries now as there would have been years ago when watering wasn’t an option.
declan burke

Ger, in a nutshell the only consistency in this country when it comes to watering is the inconsistency. The Curragh have a lot to answer for after last weeks debacle. They had the chance of hosting a race that would surely have went down in history as an epic battle between two 3yo middle distance giants, instead they have to rely on Aidan O’Brien to make up the numbers and make the race look some bit respectable. In my opinion there was no 2nd yesterday as the winner could have went round again and if Sea The Stars did run then he would have had his work cut out regardless for me. Fame ang Glory is an exceptional 3yo who went under most people’s radar as a 2yo. BTW Ger, my namesakes day will come when the rain stays away and is a Group 3 3yo in the making. Summit Surge Part 2 if u ask me.

Another farce made of what should have been the best flat race of the year in Ireland. There was not much point going to the Curragh on Sunday to watch a one horse show. Congratulations to the winner but to now say this morning that he is better then the Epsom Derby winner is bizarre to say the least. Everybody tells us the winning post at Epsom is the most important piece of timber anywhere in the world. Now it suits some people to say the Curragh winner is better because the Epsom winner didn’t make it to the races because of some people’s watering tactics. Summer ground is summer ground and so let nature take it’s course. We were all robbed of what could have been a great race but now the opportunity has passed. Back now to watching them run in the UK on the TV on the GROUND that they want.

I agree with the above. I feel watering should only take place when the going is firm. Good or good to firm ground is perfectly safe for flat horses. To be honest the ground in Ireland even during the summer never becomes dangerously fast anyway. Watering should only be a measure teken in extreme circumstances and not a regular occurance. It has to be dangerous for a horse to run on the round track on the Curragh on quick ground and then race up the straight on slower ground. The Curragh this week was never going to get really firm anyway even if they did not water or if no rain had come. Watering should occur at National Hunt meetings as this is a different proposition altogether and injuries to human and beast are more likely. The bottom line is watering should never really need to occur prior to a flat meeting as the ground never gets very firm with our damp climate anyway.

yes the same argument sent our best player home from the world cup the ground is like a car park managers wake up give our trainers a chance this is flat season not muck time

This is more serious than just ruining spectacles or depriving horses of the chance to show their worth thus driving them out of Ireland.
Tony Morris in the Racing Post has been going on for years about how watering tracks has led to unsound and often moderate horses making it to the breeding sheds to propagate their dubious genes.
Horses race all over the world on fast ground except it seems in Europe. No wonder British, Irish and French horses are getting drubbed more regularly than used to be the case in Japan, HK and Australia; they just aren’t fast enough to go on normal fast ground. A proper fast, flat horse (over any distance) should be able to run on fast ground and if they can’t they just lack speed, as simple as that. Watering flat racecourses, except when the ground is hard, only rewards mediocrity. If Newmarket had been artificially watered for this year’s 1000 Guineas Rainbow View might well have won it but it wasn’t and she was beaten by a faster filly, Ghanaati. That’s the way it should be.
Everyone is now going on about polytrack being safer than fast ground and in the USA how horses aren’t sound enough any more to run on natural dirt. If things keep regressing like that what’s going to happen in the future if they aren’t sound enough to run on polytrack any more, lay down sponge tracks?

Until now Ger Lyons seems to have been a lone voice in the wilderness, highlighting the unnecessary and incessant watering of raceourses on our small island, an island which always has, and always will enjoy island weather - unpredictable weather, except for one sure thing - it’ll rain very soon. But now that Mick Kinane has lashed out in the Racing Post, Brian O’ Connor on his blog, and more importantly because they have been hit in the pocket, the powers that may finally be forced to take a stance against their own idiocy. It is difficult to quantify how many customers were lost as a result of a battle-of-the-superstars being traded for a Sunday afternoon Ballydoyle-pecking-order parade, but it has to have been in the thousands. More importantly the Derby-that-should-have-been would have due reward for those of us who support this failing industry on bleak mid week nights at Leopardstown, Fairyhouse et al, paying a ridiculous e15 admission, and bloated prices for basic food, teas or coffees. Don’t get me going…..I’ll need the full Curragh watering system just to cool me down…

Despite the fact I live in the USA, I have kept up with this whole watering debacle that has gone on in my homeland for the past number of years. I happen to own a good ground jumper in Ireland and despite my several trips back to Ireland to see him run,he has had to be pulled out due to over watering(Fairyhouse,this spring being the last time,yielding on Sunday,heavy showers forecast,and on go the taps!). I do understand that for jumpers,safe ground is preferred,but tell me how safe is uneven watered ground with false patches?
Here in the USA, horses race on firm turf virtually all the time,and studies have showed a significant less amount of injuries than even american dirt,why? because the surface is level and consistent. I do realise we have the benefit of running on bute here,but that can only hide so much.
As Ger rightfully pointed out ,until the Irish racing governing body steps forward with strict guidelines regarding watering,it will be a free for all for racecourse managers. In the meantime, can all these racecourses reimburse my plane tickets for my last 4 trips home!

As expressed by many contributors to this blog, the watering situation has a significant impact at the highest level. I would also like to highlight the impact at a lower level (which by definition actually means many more people).
Like Fergus, I am a foreign-based owner who has chosen to support the industry in Ireland (as opposed to France, for example, where I live.)

Having had between two and four horses in training at any one point in time, over the past few seasons, the fact is that over the course of the flat season, the number of opportunities to get a run over the best distance, in the appropriate handicap range and with the right conditions is limited. Add to this the trainer’s challenge of keeping the horses sound and aiming to reach peak fitness with specific dates in mind; the number of factors that must all be combined is already significant. In the build-up to a targeted outing, much attention is given to various weather forecasting experts in an attempt to second-guess what Mother Nature has in store for us. Imagine the massive frustration, therefore, of having any chance of a decent performance scuppered (where a particular horse clearly requires ground with a “good” in it) when watering leads to the “good” disappearing from the official going.

As an owner, I am not looking for favours, miracles (although that would be nice) or any kind of preferential treatment – just a fair crack of the whip. Having firstly invested at time of purchase and then covered training fees etc. I think it is reasonable to expect that my horse(s) be allowed perform on the day and give their owner a chance of recovering at least some of his investment and probably more importantly for a small owner, the thrill of seeing your horse flash past the winning post.

In the current economic climate, I would have thought that all possible avenues should be explored with a view to increasing levels of participation in our sport. In my opinion, the “watering” situation is a significant deterrent but that has a very simple solution “Leave it alone!”

As a former part owner who lost a good hurdling mare (to racing at least) on way too firm ground for jumping in Cork a few years ago, I believe there is a need to water, at least for jumpers on firm surfaces. However, Ger is right here. Curragh’s watering policy turned yesterday’s Derby, a near EUR 1 million race into a benefit for Ballydoyle. I’m a big fan of Aidan and what he’s done but that wasn’t entertainment yesterday.

Dont water,run the buggers irrespective of ground and when they start breaking down and worse in front of the paying public and distressing them stand back and listen to the whinging,hand wringing and opinions then.Apart from the top 5% most owners are barely able to survive in a SPORT (not business) that without them the entire industry depends.Sure cull out the lesser horses and with it the employment and entertainment they facilitate.Racecourse management are trying to satisfy all -an impossible task.I know if I owned an animal of any real value I for one would be insistent on “safe ” ground for my animal and screw those who dont even put a handfull of feed in the pot.
As for competition just look back at the decs for Derby the internationals wernt coming anyway!! Now why is that?
Have any of the “mouth pieces” even taken the time to review the stats on racecourse injuries/fatalities to horses.Its trying to reduce these figures not increase them is trying to be achieved. This is in a country where we venerate the skeleton of a great horse (Arkle) and display its career ending injury!!! Two words missing from comments above– Horse welfare and Public Perception these are very real issues that management need to be mindfull of.

Are you suggesting that the reason there were no international entries for the Irish Derby was because of trainers fearing injuries to their horses?? I think there was a more fundamental reason… As for horse welfare, does anybody believe that John Oxx would have been irresponsible to run Sea The Stars had the ground not been watered and come up good-to-firm? Nobody is suggesting that we run horses on rock-solid ground. We don’t have to, we have watering facilities in this eventuality, but it seldom happens here because of our weather patterns, and who can argue with Tony Morris’s assertions that watering racecourses ultimately feeds into the creation of genetically unsound horses? This, rather than allowing nature to dictate ground conditions is, I believe the greater threat to animal welfare, and the ‘public perception’ of the game. And, while we’re on the subject of ‘public perception.’….. does this phrase not tend to refer to the perception of those who tend not to participate in any real or meaningful way with the sport? Thankfully the above comments seem to be from those who are, in one form or other, the backbone of the Irish racing industry, not snipers on the sideline whose opinions are not, ultimately, to be feared or taken seriously.

I went to the curragh on sunday and it reminded me of the days of vincent o brien — first of all th efacilitie shad hardly changed—aidan o’brien on top in every race of substance –occasionally a Dermot Weld jim bolger or john oxx shows up but O’Brien is only 40 and this will last another generation — no offense aidan but count me out i’m not blaming him but the point is that flat racing is a complete bore in ireland these days uncompetitive, controlled by a powerful few and ultimately really really boring — i live in new york and they need to do something about the entire structure. Good horses are penalized for winning — what kind of structure is that? Shouldn’t they think of the american model where maidens, winner of one race, winners of two races, winners of three races etc, compete against each other on a level playing field with the exact same achievement level . For horses not as good they run them in claiming races. The point is every horse is trying there is no incentive to pull your horse for another race to get a good handicap mark, indeed the more races you win the more money you can run for. .

Surely inaccurate ground describtions are a greater scourge on irish racing than the occasional watering problem. How often during the year do we see the clerk of the course change the going after one or two races without any additional rainfall. They consult with jockeys after they have ridden on the ground and then change their mind.
Punters are given no consideration. You back a horse that need good ground when the official going is good, but shortly before the race the ground is changed to soft or heavy. So the clerk of the course made a mistake - try telling your bookmaker after the race that you made a mistake with your bet!!!!

Good to firm ground galvanised (sorry Fergal) King Keano today. Trainers mollycoddle their horses far too much. Every horse should be able to run on good ground but in Fairyhouse recently 36 horses were withdrawn when rain changed the going to good. And then they complain about balloting.

Tippreary was a disgrace, Some idiot with a slurry spreader drowned the centre of the course,If your looking for good ground or firm ground don’t go to tipp.Pat Smullen was standing in a of puddle soup in the middle of the straight,Absolutely crazy 5 furlong speedsters on uneven false ground somebody either equine or jockey could have been injured.If you don’t want firm or good to firm don’t run.But give top of the ground horses a chance.

And, while we’re on the subject of ‘public perception.’….. does this phrase not tend to refer to the perception of those who tend not to participate in any real or meaningful way with the sport? Thankfully the above comments seem to be from those who are, in one form or other, the backbone of the Irish racing industry, not snipers on the sideline whose opinions are not, ultimately, to be feared or taken seriously.
…………………………………………………………………………
Snipers on the sideline David????.
Is that a reference to punters as a whole?, are you saying David that only people who work within the industry proper is entitled to voice an opinion on this emotive subject?.
I’m in my early 40’s and have been backing and going to race meetings since I was knee high to a grasshopper.
The punter I may add is the life & blood of this sport no matter how some try to tell you otherwise. They the punter is afforded no respect whatsoever yet they keep coming back for more when those who work within the industry hoodwink them left right & centre. Sometimes I wonder why we even bother?.
Hooked I suppose!.
Training racehorses is not exactly the equivalent of building a rocket to the moon, but you would think it takes a genius to get a racehorse fit, Mick Channon is a former footballer come successful racehorse trainer, footballers are not renowned for their outstanding intellect.

My apoligies David as I seemed to have overlooked the top part of your paragraph!.

IS THERE A CHANCE THAT THE POWERS THAT ARE WOULD GIVE THE SMALL OWNERS A CHANCE OF GOOD GROUND FOE GALWAY?? PERHAPS THE BIGGER TRAINERS JUST WANT TO WIN EVERYTHING THAT SUITS THEM ONLY MJ

Interesting reading the comments on watering and drug testing, Irish horse racing seems to reflect Irish society at the present time the interests of the few or chosen ones over the interests of the public. I believe this will continue until John public realises that the ultimate power lays with him or her, vote with your feet and stay away from horse racing and or bookmakers until the racing is cleaned up. Racing Professionals could of course clean up their own industry but in the land of the nod and the wink thats a real sretch run. John

Why don’t the HRI ask trainers when they are entering their horses to add what ground the horse goes on.So that horses that go on different grounds get a better chance of getting in rather than been balloted out.And when the ground changes we don’t have the debacle of so many withdrawn horses while the horses that have been balloted out looking on on the sidelines