The Kids Gotta Rock

Brian,
I agree with you, one hundred percent! Maybe the Tote and the Bookies could take a leaf from the drinks promotion people’s book and offer free bets to get the uninitiated into the swing of things.
I applaud Leopardstown’s efforts with the music nights. With a little forward thinking and a lot of work there is no reason why every evening meeting at every course should not be packed. I am closer to sixty than twenty six so the Saw Doctors rather than the Coronas.
Regards,
Martin P.

Brian,
You pose an interesting dilemma for all racing enthusiasts.
Racecourse executives should no doubt jump at the opportunity of increasing their gate numbers, but the sport may ultimately suffer if tracks become nothing more than a seething mosh pit.
Anyone that has witnessed the puking and fighting pre-pubescent teens at the Friday of Punchestown either this year or last will know exactly what I am talking about.
It is my opinion that racing must stand on its own two feet and not depend on crutches to survive, whether they be Government handouts, Rock and Roll groupies or Ladies Day extravaganzas.

I noticed at Arlington Park, Chicago, how little interest most of the attendance were taking in the racing – but there was a big, revenue-generating crowd. The difference between it and the Leopardstown crowd was that in America it was aimed at families, not at twenty-somethings. Food was more important than alcohol and there was none of the unpleasantness you get in the atmosphere when there are several thousand young, drunk people. There were picnic areas, seats in the stand, dependable public transport.
You don’t have to be ‘arthritic’ to want to attend a sporting event where boozed-up twenty-somethings don’t dominate. They have our city centres to themselves already.

Initiatives to attract newcomers to attend race-meetings are what’s required. The after-racing music that courses like Limerick and Leopardstown and others put on are a step in the right direction. Tracks need to be inventive and attract a different set through the turnstiles. If they like the overall total product they may return for more. Just take a look at the age profile attending most meetings. It’s mostly elderly, middle-aged and kids. The industry needs to do more to attract a new set. Personally I have almost given up attending mainly due to the cost (€30 to Galway is steep when it’s two of us plus race cards and light refreshements) and the poor fare that is on offer too often. Lowering the cost of entry and ancilliaries would help but for me it’s a lot easier to bet and watch from the convenenience of home.

Agreed. Like someone said, we don’t want a whole year of punchestown fridays with he puking schoolkids but it’s time racecourses looked at ways of gettin people in. The coronas seem to be the perfect way of getting the 20 somethings in on a fine Thursday evening. You can do the family thing on a Saturday or Sunday like andrew said and maybe offering free admission to any adults accompanied by a child the 20 somethings are in the bed then and it’s the families that are out looking for good cheap entertainment for the day. Although I can almost see the line of children being passed out over the fence in order to get the next person in for free. These are the two main groups which need to be looked after because they will have the disposable income for the next 30 years. I was brought to the races as a child and purely because of that, I still go whenever I get the chance even though I know feck all about horses. I just enjoy the day out and trying to win the cost of it back off the bookies. If you get their parents to bring them when they are young, they will come of their own choice later and then you have the chance of keeping them interested. If they never start coming, it’s impossible to keep them coming

You are seriously deluded if you think any of the extra who came through the turnstiles to see the Coronas will be so hooked by the experience of horse racing that they will flock back to foxrock in their droves, 99.99% will never be back[maybe the night club]. They came racing to see yet another Irish wannabe band from Terenure who just so happen to have Mary Blacks son in their line up and whose core base of fans probably attended Terenure College or still are!, dressed non conformist as all college kids do. I’d say the tote was inundated by the extra volume of bets that it was close to meltdown, NOT!!!, College kids are notorious penny pinchers which is something they inherited off their middle class parents, if they had a pound here or a pound there on the tote it would be no more than that. The band were organised to get more paying people through the turnstiles, as simple as that! not as some future horseracing recruitment drive.
……………………………………………………………………………………

Just to get away from the subject, read article below how in the name of god can anyone take these jokers from the Turf Club serious???
……………………………………………………………………………………..
Turf Club reiterates medication rules By Tony O’Hehir6.05PM 9 AUG 2009
MANY trainers in Ireland have not been following correct procedures, the Turf Club has said, after a number of high-profile positive tests for prohibited substances forced it to remind trainers about guidelines for using veterinary medicines.

Dunguib, disqualified from the Paddy Power Champion Bumper at Punchestown after testing positive for a substance found in worming medication, has been the most notable example in recent weeks.

Turf Club chief executive Denis Egan said: “The guidelines have been in place for some time but it is obvious many trainers have not been following the correct procedures.

“Had they done so then the number of prohibited substance cases we have had to deal with would have been considerably less.

“Many of the recent cases, including those involving Tony Martin [Royal County Star], Gavin Cromwell [Crossdresser] and Philip Fenton [Dunguib] were all down to human error.”
…………………………………………………………………………………
Human error Denis? human error Denis are you sure about that Denis? are you so bloody sure about that?????????.
You might remember a certain Tony Martin, sorry! Tony Martins staff been found in the Newmarket stabling area [Champion Stakes day] with prohibitive substances with the means to administer, just a coincidence I suppose Denis?. Denis you are not lecturing a class of 6yr old children, typical of the spineless Irish Turf Club always an explanation, isn’t that right Denis, always a bona fide explanation, pull the other one with bells on!!!!.
Until this incestual relationship stops punters in this country might aswell jump in the ocean.

“And when a train goes by its such a sad sound!”

Nice to see that Irishracing.com is now looking more like the betfair forum, just what we need, another outlet for pocket talking punters.

Difference Ted not as easy for you and friends to get comments removed like you do anything that is critical of you and your ilk on the Betfair forum. The usual put down remark. pocket talkers! change the bleeding record for gods sake, I’m certainly not pocket talking as I barely have a bet on horseracing anymore the bulk of my bets are on other sporting events, such is my distrust of Irish racing, to be more precise not the horses but the human participants.
Out of sight out of mind, the Turf Club and Trainers motto.
I suppose you think it was just a coincidence too??.
I don’t know who you are but I would have a wild guess you are either a member of Racings so called regulators or work for them, a trainer, or an owner with a certain trainer.

Patrick I think you have missed the point regarding Denis Egan and the Turf Club statement. They know quite well that all substance abuse cases are not innocent mistakes, but legally they are on thin ice stating such. What they have done is draw a line in the sand regarding this issue. It looks like they now intend coming down increasingly hard on offenders and this can only be a positive for racing.

I agree with Andrew. The Coronas model might work for Leopardstown but it doesn’t mean it is right for every track (though I am surprised and encouraged to hear it was such a success).

At the provincial tracks the summer evening meetings have their own atmosphere. It is obviously more intimate and family-oriented even if a lot of them do attract meagre crowds. The picnic idea is definitely something to be promoted. The tracks could keep their admission prices at the same level but allow people to bring their own food and lay on an outdoor area where people can have their picnic.

I agree with the Brian O’Connor’s original post. The more people a course can get through the turnstiles the better, be they best dressed ladies, children on bouncy castles or students attending a band gig. Obviously they have to be policed once inside. Relying on racing people to keep the game going in this day and age is nonsence “since those with a knowledge of racing seem to be resolutely staying at home watching ATR” as stated by Brian. There was an anonymous blog here to this effect a few weeks ago which is still running under the Peguines and Lemmings heading.

Sligo last week had a two day meeting. Wednesday was quiet but Thursday was buzzing due to Ladies day. There were plenty of ladies in their finery and even more lads drooling over them. It was also helped by having a NH card and a sunny evening.

Keep the turnstiles clicking otherwise there will be no industry left.

RE: This Ted fellas comment

I refer to your comment re “nice to see that Irishracing.com is now looking more like the betfair forum, just what we need, another outlet for pocket talking punters”.

What a brainless, ignorant statement. The punter is the spine of racing. The majority are tax payers who contributed to the healthy state of irish racing. No punters means no racing which means no unemployment for jockeys, trainers. bookmakers and thousands of others in the industry.

With cuts of almost €10million on the way, Irish racing will depend on the punter more than ever as the industry needs to mechanise a self funding model similar to that of the levy in England. So many incompetent numpties involved in this great sport of ours that it is beyond comprehension.

Fair enough Pete, but to be honest I’m not biting!, until the Irish Turf Club show some balls and dish out extended bans nothing will change.
Who is the only organisation [for want of a better word] that hasn’t as much as a leg to stand on?, yes the punter!, the punter that keeps all the natives in a job and made some so incredibly rich that in this day and age is almost criminal, that 90% of the world is in poverty.

Markb, Teds mindset is entrenched and our regulaters almost encourage it!

you are making the assumption that i was referring to all punters, some punters can deal with the fact that someday they will back a loser, others will use any excuse including the conspiracy theories of race fixing, jockeys not trying, doping, etc. to cover the fact that they got it wrong, the latter is whom i refer to as the “pocket talking punter” or could be referred to as “Matt Chapmans disciples” as in their brain is over ridden by the fact that they are out of pocket. i fully inderstand the massive importance that punters have in racing. and yes racing would end up in the toilet without punters money. but i tire of the rubbish that gets published on every racing blog everyday by people who are just sore losers. and when challenged on this they hide behind “how dare you disagree with me, i am a punter, racing wouldnt survive without me so i can write whatever rubbish i like”. Yes racing needs to change it needs to punish and punish severly thoses you bring the game into disrepute. the turf club does lack the transparency in its decison making process that would leave anyone frustrated. Yet so would the mindset of some of the punters that racing so dearly needs for its surival. We need racing and they need us that fact is not up for discussion.

Well said Ted!

Everyone who contributes to discussions on racing has the sport at their heart. We all see things that are not right with the game and we want to change them.

Upset punters screaming that racing is “rigged” or “fixed” doesn’t do any good. What does have an effect is constructive debate.

Look at Brian’s blog from a few weeks ago about admission prices. It brought the issue to the forefront and ended with John Moloney of Galway having to defend his pricing structure on national radio.

Let’s give credit where credit is due though. Fair play to Leopardstown. €15 for a night at the races, followed by a decent band is good value. Typically the series of summer evening races this year has included at least a group 3, sometimes a group 2, so pretty decent racing fare.

I look forward to some equally innovative thinking from other race courses.

I’d have to disagree with you brian.
I was at the Belmont Stakes 2 years ago to see Rags to Riches win it, historic result!
The crowd was massive but split down the middle by the grandstand, in front of the stand was the racing crowd at the back of the stand was was the equivalent of a rock concert and by that i mean unconscious girls falling over getting stretchered out, undercover police arresting drug dealers, fights and other such mayhem. I was told it had been worse in previous year (even a mention of riot police in a standoff) but Belmont Park had stopped allowing people to bring in their own coolers of beer etc. so it was calmer in 07

So yes, this will get the crowds in the gates but there’s a fine line as to when it will start to turn off the people who actually have an interest in the horses, the few of them who are left on course…..in a similar vain they could also set up Casinos on track to get people in the doors but you have to wonder is that the right route….they should be looking to sell racing for racing, the sport that it is.

You don’t see football using women to lure in fans or complaining that the majority of its (ticket buying) fans are male or middle aged That is the target audience for most sports, so go after them if you pull in a few women along the way all the better.

Horse racing is an amazing sport with plenty to offer to both the hardcore and the casual fans however it is marketed badly and has a stigma of being either an old mans sport (NH) or wealthy tycoons sport (flat).

I personally think it needs more Fankie Dettori’s and Paul Nicholls, people who are recogniseable and open to to the press (and possibly the public) to give peole some attachement to the sport and something to follow.

Too many trainers are stern and tightlipped, most jockeys not much better, more should be made of them to promote the sport that sustains them. Make them stars that young kids can follow and look up to.

Likewise horses, we’ve all seen what Denman and Kauto did for the sport

Nice to see that Irishracing.com is now looking more like the betfair forum, just what we need, another outlet for pocket talking punters.
Comment by Ted — August 11, 2009 @ 9:06 am
……………………………………………………………………………………..
Well Ted you could have made yourself a little more transparent, as to be honest even you would admit that your original post above would suggest to anyone reading it that it says exactly what is printed on the tin.

If you read my post and other posts on here they had nothing to do with pocket talking but disillusionment with Irish racings regulators.
The BHA our Turf Clubs counterparts across the water get an awful amount of stick from the British punting public for what they percieve as extremely lenient punishments dished out to perpetrators, heaven forbid if they had the turf club regulators there would be rioting in the streets.

Music festivals for music – racecourses for horesracing
and pubs for drunks

I I am spending two weeks at Saratoga at present and going to the trackmost days. There is an average attendance during the weeko f about 15,000 and double that at weekends. It is the most pleasant racing experience possible.
How do they do it? It is not just one answer.
1.For me and dedicated punters like me the quality of the racing for the 36 days of the meet is first class– there is a stakes race every day and 10 races most days with highly competitve fields–think Cheltenham —everyone is trying because owners and trainers want a Saratoga winner.
2.. The betting combinations make it very possible to get some kind of payoff between win place and show exactas pick fours, pick sixes, superfectas etc. The dime superfecta box 4X3X2X1 which you use topick the first four horses in a race that costs only $4.80 and can pay off spectacularly is a big hit since it was introduced.
3. –weather: sorry Ireland little you can do about that — the upstate New York weather is perfect every day this year attracing huge crowds as a result.
4. Price of admission– $2 to grandstand $5 to clubhouse– the price for a family in Ireland is ridiculuous.
5. Giveaways– next Sunday is T shirt giveawayand about 50,000 people will visit to take advantage. There are abiout six giveaways.
6. Family friendly — food that doesn’t cost a fortune,picnic tables, performng acts. live music every day.In the morning breakfast at the track where you and kids can watch the workouts and visit the backstretch on guided tours
7. Innovative marketing Last Wedneasday they had a half way to st patricks day — if you wore green you got free admission — attendance jumped by over 5,000.
8.Local community involvement. Special deals for racegoers when you produce your admission stub, reasonable prices that do not try and rip people off, good food and beer including two great Irish pubs all racing themed.

I I know American racing has many huge problems but Saratoga is a jewel. The powers that be in Ireland could do worse than come and study it for a few weeks. Convenience and fun for famaly and friends–and for serious punters –and yes Brian –beautiful ladies as far as the eye can see.
My ten cents worth from America.

JAMES – the mouth waters at your vivid description of Saratoga ! Apart from the weather, many of these ideas could be taken on board by racecourses over here if the will was there. I was lucky enough to attend the beautiful Flemington track in Melbourne recently where among the features were post-race interviews (more like friendly chats) over the public address with the winning jockeys and trainers after every race.
This sort of thing, along with leading jockeys being readily available for autographs and pics with with racegoers, thereby establishing a closer contact with the racing public, is what we need – not the drug/booze fuelled
“entertainment” advocated by Brian 0′Connor and others on this blog. The latter might attract a transient young crowd – with no present or future interest in the actual racing – but is a distinct turnoff for regular racegoers. Being a lover of horseracing myself for more years than I care to remember, I thought I would introduce my daughter to the delights of the game so I brought her to the “mecca” of the National Hunt, the Punchestown Festival. Disgusted by the scenes of uncontrolled drunkeness which we experienced there, she vowed never to darken the doors of a racecourse again. And who could blame her – and she has a couple of small children herself, so you could say that particular generation of my family has been lost to racing forever. The short-sightedness of it all.
The introduction of this type of so-called drawing card reminds me of a pub ..
in my town which was doing a steady, if unspectacular business, down the years with its regulars downing a few pints most evenings, increased business at the weekends, nice bit of craic and a good, stress-free atmosphere.
However, the management decided to “jazz up” the place to attract more of the younger free-spending crowd – more exotic drinks, loud music, etc. The youth duly flocked in and the regulars went elsewhere. After a while, of course, the newcomers found other attractions but the regulars never came back and the place is now virtually empty..

“So many of our tracks are close to major centres of population so why not turn them into realistic options for young people eager to enjoy themselves: And by enjoy themselves, I mean places where they can get drunk and get laid ”

All perving aside though, the action of having a couple of thousand fit females in the one place produced the inevitable reaction of several more thousand horny-handed fellas on the beer and on the pull.

These are two direct quotes from the original article of Brian O Connor recomedning the way to increase attndences at raccourses – Jesus help us if this is the only suggestion

Hello – I was at that leopardstown meeting with that band and the whole thing was a complete mess – drunks everywhere. There was not a big attendance at all . Thisi is nonsense . Where are the figures to back this up . If the racecourses continue with these music festivals and ladies days they might as well stop bringing the horses as well and just leave the meetings as fashion shows and muscial festivals.

Horseracing must stand on its own – it is a great sport – and it should not be dependent on Ladies Fashion shows, drunks, and three-chord trick pop groups. They are different types of people entirely looking for different types of entertainment – it will all end in tears if it hasnt already .

Yes I’m like a broken record, but reading some of your posts regarding how to improve our sport and get the crowds flocking back, all valid enough points, but funny how most of you seem to skirt around the danger zone and failed to mention [what I would percieve as first and foremost] cleaning up our sport from the unscrupulous, but of course most of you are members of the apathetics who see cheating in racing as just one of those things, a mindset that gets my blood above boiling point.
I wonder have you ever stopped to think why most bets struck on horseracing in this country are placed on British racing, which is hardly squeaky clean now is it ?, a damning endictment of Irish racing and its human participants!.

See Bellewstown have pulled off a bit of a coup by getting Caprice Bourret to host their best dressed lady comp later this month.
Interesting to see how many bums that puts on seats. Think the men might out-number the women for this one.

Patrick – Betting on the horses is only one aspect of the horseracing experience – it is not the be all and end all . A lot of people go the races for different reasons other than gambling. If you think that a straight game will allow a gambler to win , then you are either a fool or are easily parted from your hard earned cash . The gambler never wins – the bookie always wins in the end whther the horses run on their merits or not ” never hit 17 when you play against the dealer” If a punter was allowed to win how would bookies operate as a business – When you collect on a bet you are only taking some other punters money for a short while until he wins it back from you . The Bookie takes his cut on both transactions – Cop on or go to Gamblers Anonymous

Music and ladies days are all very well for attracting numbers through the gate, but at the end of the day the overwhelming majority of them won’t be back, bet very little if at all and racecourses will have alienated the people who come in all weathers and whatever the quality of races. Up until a few years ago I attended every Kilbeggan meeting. However the atmosphere there has changed totally from the nice friendly family track I knew growing up (the crowds certainly seemed much bigger then, I remember when the jackpot there was always guaranteed at 10k last sat it got to 3,399) to one more interested in corporate types. I didn’t go last weekend as they were holding yet another best dressed ladies competition, and I wasn’t the only former regular to avoid it. The view on ATR is much better than trying to see past ridiculous hats.
If they have to have them, let racecourses stick the music and “least appropriately” dressed ladies in a carpark well away from the horses and fans of racing, but don’t forget that at the end of the day they’re raison d’etre is horseracing.

Well said Richard – I have read your previous blogs on this subject of ladies days and music and they were bang on the target. It has definitely turned off a lot of racing people. How may times have I heard this conversation
up he in North Kildare . “Q Hi did you go over to Punchestwon – A. No dont go anymore too many hats and young drunks”

Why not have these events at the same racecourse by all means but on different days – A Best Dressed , Drugs, drink, music binge on a Friday evening and horsearcing on the saturday afternoon. One crowd dont want the other crowd around anywaya nd vice versa

Has anyone ever done a survey on the age of the average racegoer in Ireland, probably not!, but if they did they would probably find that most are either pensioners or rapidly approaching that age, all wonderfully civilised, with their binoculars full of badges of all the meetings they attended over the years, a kind of elitism.
Times tide will soon smother these regulars, and racing will soon realise that there is nobody left to take their place, and many of the gaff tracks will close because they become unsustainable, with the advent of the internet and the ability to back on more popular sports like soccer, not to mention the crazy price of a day out at the races [especially if you back a loser or four] and that most people think that Irish racing is inherently corrupt and incestual, DOOMSDAY! is fast approaching.
Desperate times call for desperate measures!, the racecourse management are fully aware of this and know that reasonably popular music bands and novelty fun events will not bring new recruits to racing but at least bring a few hundred more paying customers through the turnstiles.
Racing is dead boys and its so lonely on a limb!!!.

P.S. Joe, I won’t trade insult with insult like the one at the end of your post, as its not my style.

Well said Patrick!

How many people from North Kildare attend Punchestown on the wet thursday meetings during the winter? Sweet Fanny Adams I’d say going by the pathetic crowds at that racecourse bar the festival.

Take a look at Thurles – a track wholly devoted to the racing enthusiast. It has one of the best racing surfaces in Ireland, excellent viewing from the stands, better than average racing but very badly attended by the public. I accept that the facilities are spartan, but this is surely a good thing – not a floppy hat, stilletto or drunken lout in sight! This surely is a true racegoers heaven and the crowds will be flocking in their droves to this utopia if we believe what some of the blogs say. But sadly no, all you see are a few men aged over 55. In an interview, the owner Pierce Maloney reckoned the track would not survive without the money generated from At The Races.

If we keep living in the past then our sport will soon become a thing of the past.

Thurles – “a track wholly devoted to the racing enthusiast” …..blah blah blah – are you serious – Thurles ??? what a dump – “facilities are spartan ” you say – Even the Spartans wouldnt survive in Thurles . The overwhelming memory we have of that place is the stink of stale urine permeating everywhere and everything – “a true racegoers heaven” yeah sure

Close it down and be done with it along with Ballinrobe, Downpatrick, Sligo, Tralee Killarney and Clonmel and put any spare money into the tracks that provide facilites for the horse racing public – Put the music , the drunks and the drggies and the best dressed competitions in the car parks as Richard correctly suggested – preferably on a different day to the racing

JOE!!!!! The fact that you don’t even know that Tralee HAS closed just makes everything you say unbelievable. there is nothing worse then ill-informed arguements.
Idiot

Sorry I meant Tramore – and hopefully it too will follow Tralee .

James the word argument has no “e”

In any event, as I said ,close them down and be done with it , they are not a viable commercial entity so let them go to the wall asap or use them for best dressed ladies fashion shows , music festivals and the like – just dont call them racecourses any more

You are right John nobody I know from North Kildare attends Punchestown or an other racecourse on a Thursday evening and certainly not if its wet – would you ? They shouldnt have race meetings on thursday evenings to start with

Maybe that girl you mention Sweet Fanny Adam does but I am not that au fait with the Adams family as you seem to be

Here are two quotes from loudmouth Patrick

“You are seriously deluded if you think any of the extra who came through the turnstiles to see the Coronas will be so hooked by the experience of horse racing that they will flock back to foxrock in their droves, 99.99% will never be back[maybe the night club]. They came racing to see yet another Irish wannabe band from Terenure who just so happen to have Mary Blacks son in their line up and whose core base of fans probably attended Terenure College or still are!,”

and the following

“the racecourse management are fully aware of this and know that reasonably popular music bands and novelty fun events will bring new recruits to racing”

Well done Patrick – the gambling has yout brain rightly addled

Hey patrick – two of your quotes below

“P.S. Joe, I won’t trade insult with insult like the one at the end of your post, as its not my style.”

What would you call the following then ?? also from you

“Difference Ted not as easy for you and friends to get comments removed like you do anything that is critical of you and your ilk on the Betfair forum. The usual put down remark. pocket talkers! change the bleeding record for gods sake,”

nice to see u got the good of the racing industry at heart joe. close down tracks, dont bother racing midweek, put the paying public (for whatever reason they attend and spend money) in the car park.

keep it going joe, i nearly wet myself laughing at your comments!

Close down tracks that require less percentage prizemoney sponsorship from HRI and EBF than Cork, Gowran, Naas, Navan, Roscommon or Tipperary or to put it another way more locally supported percentage sponsorship of the races than a lot of tracks (Navan, Thurles, Dundalk or Cork)? One of the tracks would have one of the higher percentages of sponsorship in the country and that is without graded races or large festivals of racing.

Close down tracks that have higher on-course betting per meeting than Limerick, Cork or Dundalk for example?

Close down tracks with the following average meeting attendances in 2008 of:
Ballinrobe 2572
Downpatrick 2046
Sligo 2620
Tramore 3055
Killarney 3273
Clonmel 1580
which for most of them is greater than the average attendances at the following tracks, also in 2008:
Cork 2397
Dundalk 2114
Naas 2060
Navan 2595
Thurles 2195
Tipperary 1781
Wexford 2244 ?

Some of the management of the tracks earmarked for closure by Joe are actually improving their facilities. Sligo for instance in recent years received an award for the racetrack with most improved facilities in the country and I believe carried out substantial drainage operations on the track in either 2008 or this year.

If tracks with higher attendances, higher local sponsorship, higher on-course bookmaker turnover coupled with improved facilities are not viable, well then what does it say about the likes of Navan, Naas, Limerick and Cork?????

Racing is for all of our people, in all of our country.

You obviously are either drinking or cant undersand plain english ,Paul – drinking probably – if you have nearly wet yourself. What I read in Joes comments was that racing on a wet Thursday was pointless, that racetracks that are lsoing money and have no future should be closed down and the resources directed to the likes of the Curragh, Leopardstown, Punchestown, and that Ladies days and music groups be confined to a seperate area from the racegoers who are obviously fed up of the antics of the thugs and floozies attending these events . I think these are reasonable and positive suggestions. what do you suggest – apart from wetting yourself

I agree with CH and Joe – CH says – Close down tracks with the following average meeting attendances in 2008 of: Ballinrobe 2572 Downpatrick 2046
Sligo 2620 Tramore 3055 Killarney 3273 Clonmel 1580
These are pathetic figures if CH is correct – close them down as CH and Joe say and re-direct the savings to upgrading Navan, Gowran and Naas

Thats right Paul its called “Shrink, Save, Survive”

Drastic measures for a drastic situation

Now stop wetting yourself , like a good lad

I must not have made my point clear. I am not saying close them down at all. Arthur, I think when you read what I wrote “close down …. ” you didn’t see the “?” at the end. I was querying the basis of the proposed closures by Joe.

The tracks listed by Joe have higher attendances, % local sponsorship and betting turnover than some of the bigger named tracks of Naas, Navan, Limerick and Cork for example, two of which you suggest should be upgraded at the expense of the regional tracks. A lot of the tracks should be commended for the efforts they are making.

I don’t believe in “Shrink, Save and Survive” in horse racing as it is a important national industry. Rather I believe in “promote the product, price it right and prosper”. I think the management committees at a lot of the tracks close to larger population bases should look at what some of the smaller tracks are doing right. Personally I think the figures for the likes of Cork and Limerick are shocking given their proximity to large populations. Limerick the 3rd largest city in the republic with a population of over 91,000 had an average attendance in 2008 of 3,447.

Reducing the number of racecourses cannot be contemplated if the industry wants to keep up the number of horses in training, the numbers of individuals employed in the industry or the number of individuals involved. Where would the horses race? Remember that in 2008, 17% of all race meetings occurred at the tracks mentioned by Joe. The ground cannot withstand continuous racing especially in the Winter.

Did you have one too many last night Jonathon ????
……………………………………………………………………………….
Hey patrick – two of your quotes below

“P.S. Joe, I won’t trade insult with insult like the one at the end of your post, as its not my style.”

What would you call the following then ?? also from you

“Difference Ted not as easy for you and friends to get comments removed like you do anything that is critical of you and your ilk on the Betfair forum. The usual put down remark. pocket talkers! change the bleeding record for gods sake,”
………………………………………………………………………….
It thats an insult I’m the second coming of jesus christ!. Check out what you posted below, you are missing a small but significant word called NOT!!!.
Basically read my posts correctly.
…………………………………………………………………………………..
Here are two quotes from loudmouth Patrick

“You are seriously deluded if you think any of the extra who came through the turnstiles to see the Coronas will be so hooked by the experience of horse racing that they will flock back to foxrock in their droves, 99.99% will never be back[maybe the night club]. They came racing to see yet another Irish wannabe band from Terenure who just so happen to have Mary Blacks son in their line up and whose core base of fans probably attended Terenure College or still are!,”

and the following

“the racecourse management are fully aware of this and know that reasonably popular music bands and novelty fun events will bring new recruits to racing”

Well done Patrick – the gambling has yout brain rightly addled
……………………………………………………………………………..
will “not” bring new recruits to racing but at least bring a few hundred more paying customers through the turnstiles.
………………………………………………………………………….
You were saying Jonathon????

Just another query Jonathon if you copied and pasted my posts, whatever happened to the word not, mysteriously disappeared?, bit of a head scratcher????.
“Big mouth strikes again and I’ve got no right to take my place in the human race!!!”

thank you joe for your concern for my health. actually my bladder is in fine working order – well it would have to be when reading your inane comments

CH, you mentioned the poor average attendance at Limerick, well it would be even worse if it were not for their “student nights” which have little or nothing to do with racing.
The majority of racecourses are badly run. Each of them is a microcosm of the industry itself – dependent on handouts, jobs for the boys and pandering to the same people of power and wealth.
Give any business over €30K a day to just open its doors (TV money) and see how inefficient it will become.

Patrick – As usual with your blogs I cannot make head nor tail of what you are ranting on about from jealousy of Mary Blacks son and terenue College to your non existent Gambling problem – Jesus what a spectrum .Jonathan is quite correct if you re-read your own blogs you will see the contradictions eveywhere

as to the other chap and his bladder – it is quite obvious that your bladder is in fine working order if one reads what you are saying – bladder is right

CH says Reducing the number of racecourses cannot be contemplated if the industry wants to keep up the number of horses in training, the numbers of individuals employed in the industry or the number of individuals involved. Where would the horses race?

The answer is nowhere – and this would eventually reduce the number of useless horses presently in training and causing balloting for every race , the annual over-production of unwanted foals would stop , and the industry would be smaller , leaner but self sufficient – in time .Shrink Save Survive

So you been to school
For a year or two
And you know youve seen it all
In daddys car
Thinkin youll go far
Back east your type dont crawl

Play ethnicky jazz
To parade your snazz
On your five grand stereo
Braggin that you know
How the punters feel cold
And the racecourses got so much soul

Its time to taste what you most fear
Right guard will not help you here
Brace yourself, my dear

Its a holiday at Horse Racing Ireland
Its tough, kid, but its life
Its a holiday at Horse Racing Ireland
Dont forget to pack a wife

Youre a star-belly sneech
You suck like a leach
You want everyone to act like you
Kiss ass while you bitch
So you can get rich
But your boss gets richer off you

Well youll work harder
With a gun in your back
For a bowl of rice a day
Slave for soldiers
Till you starve
Then your head is skewered on a stake

Now you can go where people are one
Now you can go where they get things done
What you need, my son.

Is a holiday at Horse Racing Ireland
Where people dress in tweed, Stetsons, and long macs
A holiday at Horse Racing Ireland
Where youll kiss ass or crack

And its a holiday at Horse Racing Ireland
Where youll do what youre told
A holiday at Horse Racing Ireland
Where the racecourses got so much soul
………………………………………………………………………………
Joseph my dear, do you want me to billboard it???

Joe, I don’t agree with you on closing the racecourses at all. The tracks which you earmarked could be described as “regional” but have better attendances and support than tracks which would probably come to peoples minds as some of the country’s main race tracks. They are not located in centres of larger populations and may not have the highest rated horses running at them, but does that not prove that to the ordinary racegoer, what’s important is competition and having an enjoyable day out? And it also proves which management committees are doing better jobs.

The balloting system does not apply to races rated above a certain rating in handicaps, so it doesn’t effect what people may term as the quality racing made up of better thoroughbreds. At the lower end, I don’t understand why they don’t contemplate the introduction of banded races, which has proved to be popular in England. For a lot of the ordinary owners / syndicate members, its about the thrill of the win and having a punt on your own horse, rather than the actual level of prizemoney.

While I disagree on proposing racecourse closures, I wholeheartedly agree with you that there is an issue or should I say problem of over-production. A number of years ago on a survey from the ITBA I wrote that stallions should have their nominations limited to certain numbers. This in my opinion is where the issue should be arrested in a clinical manner. If the stallions are limited to a book of 80 mares for example rather than covering 300 mares which some of them do, you will get a contraction in the numbers produced. I went to the Goresbridge thoroughbred sales last month for the first time ever and the prices for horses at the lower end of the market was horrendous. A lot of the fillies will nice confirmations, clean certs but not great pedigree pages, were going from €250 to €1200. Geldings weren’t fairing much better. It wouldn’t be unreasonable to suggest that the horses were costing the owners €4k – €5k as four year olds. A lot weren’t sold and I was told by one man who had a horse there that he was approached outside the ring to see if he would sell the mare to the factory. This is a sad reflection of the current state of the industry from a breeding point of view. Over-production leads to the slaughter of the animals and the amateur breeder.

CH – I have to hand it to you – there is no anwer to that , It is a well researched knowledgable contribution , put brilliantly, particularly your part dealing with over-production so I think you deseve the last word on this topic.

As for Patrick the Poet – you are definitely off the wall , as somebody else said the gambling must have unhinged you. But I dont think Shelley or Walter De La Mare need worry about the competiton just yet

Off the rails I was! and I’m happy to stay, get out of my way!!!!

The person who wants to close down a number of racecourses obviously didn’t ever have a horse in training.