Posh & Prole Unite!

Brian you do talk a load of twaddle. I know from staff at Leopardstown they were more than happy with the attendance yesterday.

The official aggregate figures from yesterday reflected a 20% drop from last year. Saturdays figures were even worse, down over 100%!!!

Having talked to a number of attendees over the weekend, there were a number of reasons why people didn’t go both days:

- some were in London for the Leinster/London Irish game;
- some were under the impression you would be able to buy the tickets at the track which they said they couldn’t. It had to be online which was a mistake.
- racing on Saturday wasn’t great with large handicap fields and small novice events. the only reason I went myself was because of my Punchestown reciprocal arrangement, which was also the case for Naas annual badge holders and Tote card holders so the 100 is not reflective of how many of these would have bought the ticket if their own offers were not there
- it’s January in a recession and the missus would only allow them out one day, given they wanted to watch the Munster or Leinster match with the lads on Friday/Daturday evening!

So lots of mitigating circumstances which you will get from time to time. It was a good initiative and if they did it for Irish Champion Hurdle day and the Hennessey meeting, I think they would have got a very large take up…..including myself.

I agree on the point about some meetings being culled - if my memory serves me correctly, I believe that Partick first suggested it in last weeks blog. I think that some of the mid-week fixtures from October to March have to be examined. It was a case of one old man and his dog at some of the mid-week meetings last week, which also had poor fields/disappointing cards. At least the summer/autumn mid week meetings are in the evening when people can go after work or are on holidays etc, or else if during the day are mainly restricted to the big prize money festivals such as Punchestown, Galway and Listowel.

I was at Leopardstown on Sat - very very poor attendance. I reckon most people there were not paying in on the day .ie members, tote account holders, syndicates/owners etc - perhaps they should have examined free in altogether for all punters on the Saturday. Like the previous poster, 2 consecutive days in Leopardstown at the end of a very long January is a bit hard to justify - especially if you get scorched on the Saturday! I think for most people I know it was a choice beween either day, so I dont think they should have surprised that the offer was not over subscribed.

Oracle - “Saturdays figures were even worse, down over 100%” Is that possible - if they were down 100% there would have been nobody there - and I definitely was there……

Those winter mid week meetings are industry days and vital for national hunt racing as the other tracks simply couldn’t handle the volume of runners. they are not run with the public in mind. They give horses the opportunity to have a run before the big days (e.g. a thurles maiden hurdler can go onto compete in a graded race at christmas). And they keep the poorer horses away from the bigger tracks which should be kept for better horses.

We all enjoy a mid summers evening racing, whether it’s flat or jumps but it’s also needed during the winter unless you want to have double cards on sat and sunday.

ah…industry days….”they are not run with the public in mind” - do you meaning schooling?
Ah sure thats grand anyway…we might as well give up on those neetings and all bog off then.
Just a couple of questions first…
Why do they still bother charging into most of them then? Should it not be free in winter midweek, as the public have nothing to do with it anyway? Or is that the idea, overcharge and keep the public away?

If they are not run with the public in mind, and the public get the message and stop going, what will happen when the bookies stop going as well because there are no punters there?
What happens when there is no food or drink on offer because the public are not there?
How will all racecouses break even yet alone survive with no rent from bookies, no food and drink revenues and no gate receipts?

I was at Leopardstown yesterday and it was a little lightly populated for such a strong card alright. The weather held up as well, so that wasn’t really an excuse if you wanted to go. The stands were full for the races mind you, so it wasn’t a complete disaster.

Great performance by Solwhit to win the big hurdle race. The champion hurdle market this year is a real head scratcher with any number of horses having realistic chances. I was disappointed with Celestial Halo (who I backed), normally very consistent, but ran no race at all yesterday.

Sublimity always travels like a dream, but doesn’t seem to get home these days. Perhaps it’s just the testing ground, could be worth an investment e/w at tasty odds on the assumption the ground is normally no worse than good/soft at Cheltenham.

I submitted a reply to Brians rant of 2 weeks ago,I suggested that as this is a HORSE RACING site surely we should be concentrating on HORSES.
With Cheltenham now only 50 days away and with a good number of our festival hopefulls running at Leopardstown over the weekend,would it not be a good idea to get peoples opinions of the weekends racing?

But,alas not,instead we are treated to the same dribble week in week out!

Come on Brian change the record!!

Finally,I agree with Niall,Sublimity is worth an each way investment for the Champion Hurdle,and can anyone tell me what happened Quel Esprit,Ruby didn’t look too happy after the race.

I didn’t notice Ruby after the race, I was too busy cursing my bad fortune. I thought I was sitting pretty after backing the two odds on shots @ 1/2 morning prices, getting odds against on the double. Probably talking through my pocket but I thought Ruby was maybe being a little too cute, expecting the horse to outpace Coole River on the flat. That minor point aside it looked to be beaten fair and square. Having gone off 2/7 I’d say I wasn’t the only punter who lost a few bob!

Fortunately McCoy pulled it out of the fire for me in the next.

Really looking forward to the Cheltenham festival this year. I think Dunguib looks to be an absolute banker in the Supreme Novices. Was looking at his race from last year’s bumper again and it’s frightening how impressive he was. Nothing he’s done since over hurdles has changed my opinion and I’ve already had a few antepost bets.

Anyone else got different ideas of a Cheltenham banker?

€20.00 was super price for weekend in Leopardstown but it was petty in the extreme to charge a booking fee of €3.00 per booking.

i was at leopardstown on saturday, i couldn’t attend yesterday, (sun) i have to say even allowing for the recession the sparse attendance really surprised me, we had a good card featuring what is traditionally one of the great betting heats of the year, with a great tradition, formerly the PIERSE HURDLE and previously THE LADBROKE and of course many will remember it as ”THE SWEEPS HURDLE”, What struck me most was the sight of the bookmakers trying to keep warm before the last 2 races, the pertemps qualifier and the bumper, no real activity, as i and my wife strolled around the enclosure i remarked to her that it was the clearest evidence to me that the recession was really biting racing attendances. 2 hours after racing we were strolling around DUNDRUM SHOPPING CENTRE, it was buzzing, my wife remarked: ”RECESSION ? what RECESSION ? The next major meeting is the ”HENNESSY”, It will be very interesting to see the attendance, and the level of betting activity that day.

Big Bucks and then Quevega in the Mares Hurdle would be my two bankers Niall.

From the heart, I would love to see Captain Cee Bee win the Arkle, Sublimity win the Champion and Pandorama the RSA.

Perhaps the site here could come up with some format for a tipping competition for Cheltenham, with a little prize at the end? It would be good for get our minds on the racing and off the frustrations associated with Irish Racing at present.

“Perhaps the site here could come up with some format for a tipping competition for Cheltenham, with a little prize at the end? It would be good for get our minds on the racing and off the frustrations associated with Irish Racing at present.”
Comment by Ruprecht — January 26, 2010 @ 10:09 am

Here, here i second that. A cheltenham tipping competition is a must for loyal followers of this site, but please dont have a prize of a free bet with an account bookmaker!

Completely agree Ruprecht. Keep the midweek meetings and open the gates for free. These days are needed as 30 horses on winter ground over 2m 4f is rougher on tracks that 30 maidens in the summer on good ground at the curragh. In order to keep decent ground for better tracks, the lower grade tracks need to be utilised.

HI Brian,
I think the posters are giving you a clear sign in (more or less) ignoring your topic to speak about horses. Go on, make your next post about horses, i know you can do it! It is only the most exciting time of the year for jumps fans and you have written some good piece in the past on horses.

Tipping competition is a good idea, Patrick seems to have a lot of time on his hands maybe he could run it for us.

As for the term “industry days”, i think a better analogy would have been lower league football, maybe not the most interesting but still a necessary starting point for the majority and you couldn’t have the big weekend meets without the smaller weekday meetings.
I remember when i was young, Thursdays were half days in most country towns, these meeting did much better back then, unfortunately we all seem to have to work a bit longer nowadays…

Another reason for the disappointing crowd at Leoparstown on Sat/Sunday was the unrelenting dense freezing fog around the midlands which persisted all day, both days - it certainly put me - and several others I am aware of - completely off travelling. The ironic thing was that the weather at Leopardstown was excellent.

Derek, I’m sure the weather did put some people off going to Leopardstown as did all the other reasons sited above, but whatever way you look at it attendances are falling and falling fast.

There is an interesting letter in today’s RP from Terry probert, former director of Mecca bookmakers. He talks about the decimal odds that are part of the new ‘racing for change’ initative, but makes an interesting point about the audience that racing is trying to attract:

“After years of futile marketing to a more youthful audience, the realisation dawned that our customer base for horseracing was being replenished by more mature converts in their 30s and 40s. This was just a fact of life and nothing to do with odds presentation.”

HRI has spent the last 15 years or more trying to attract a younger audience, but in the main young people couldn’t give two hoots about racing and it is about time older patrons with more disposable income were courted.

Has anyone asked what effect the increasing urbanisation of the Irish popluation is having on attendances. As a result of this urbanisation are the younger generation losing the traditional connection that the Irish had with the horse in line with the decline of the agriculture industry? Yes, the GAA have maintained attendances, however with the emerging monopolies of Gigginstown and McManus in NH racing is Joe Punter losing out on local heroes to follow on the track? As a side note it would appear that the Balloting problem that plagued racing has joined the Celtic Tiger.

“They also have the ‘stick’ of threatening to block any internet service operating in Ireland if they aren’t licensed. Betfair immediately dismissed that as unworkable, and maybe it is. Paddy Power pointed to the experience in Italy where getting around a ‘block’ consists of simply changing your web title.”

Of course BF and PP would say that - they’re terrified. Blocking service providers is no big problem at all - in America they blocked online gambling sites very effectively through a dual approach - they went to all the big ISP’s (Eircom etc) and said it is illegal for you to allow your users visit pp.com (or whatever site) if you do we’ll charge you a penalty of (insert many millions).
Straight away the ISP’s blocked the site - in Ireland there are 2/3 of these companies so it would be even easier. It would mean that if Eircom were your internet provider that site would be blocked.

the second thing they did was make it illegal for credit card companies to process credit cards for these companies - so in the example im using VISA and realex would be told that it’s illegal to process any credit cards from PP.

This double pronged approach was hugely successful in the states - there would be absolutely no issue doing it over here - yes a small number of clever computer users would bypass the ISP issue but the majority of the public and the suckers that these guys live off wouldn’t be able to find/bet on the sites.

If these sites dont agree to contribute a certain percentage of phone/internet turnover to irish racing then this is what everyone should lobby for.

Don’t believe these slimy PR guys who say it’s impossible - in fact its very, very possible. I hope they do it - sickens me to see PP.com all over Leopardstown when they are the exact scum bags who wont contribute any of their online revenue back to irish racing. Why do HRI/the racecourses let them advertise - forget the short term gain we need to secure the future of irish racing now!!

In reply to double eclipse, I think you can look no further than the world wide web, the popularity of sites like Facebook, My Space, Bebo etc might provide your answer? throw in online bookmakers and exchanges and relatively cheap off licence prices [well compared to Pubs and racecourses], wall to wall racing coverage, and there isn’t much incentive for today’s youth to bother shifting their backsides off the couch when they can remain in the comfort of their own homes and look out the window at the wind and rain and enjoy virtually everything that you can at the racecourse only much less expensive, no need for the hassle of traveling to and from the races just to see horses in the flesh when they can see even more on their TV.
Kildare and Meath have had a population explosion in the last 20 year or so because of been satellite counties, with tracks like Navan, Fairyhouse, Naas, Punchestown, The Curragh all within a stones throw of the Capital, not to mention Dublin’s only track Leopardstown within a stones throw of both Kildare and Meath you would think these tracks would be teeming, I can understand urbanization having an effect on the more rural and less accessible tracks, it should be the opposite within Dublin and its surrounding counties.
The internet has killed racing as we know it, and it hasn’t stopped yet as the internets popularity will continue to grow with ever increasing broadband speeds and the more rural towns and villages slowly getting decent broadband services.
Attendances are down and they will remain down the only hope is for HRI to try and stop the rot and try and maintain attendances at a sustainable level.

At the risk of repeating myself - there is not one single thing that can or will be done about falling attendences - nothing - attracting young punters hasnt worked for the reasons Patrick and other have succinctly set out. Dont waste your time “marketing” for 30-40s either - it wont work. There are too many race meetings and racecourses for our small population and nothing will ever chnage that. Keep paying marketing and PR parasites to fool you into thinking they can improve attendences - what a load of shit
Lesser meetings means higher attendences - simple

DM, our small population had no problem going racing in their droves in years gone by. As Patrick says something(s) have changed to influence attendance levels.
If we cull meetings the number of horses in training will plummet… owners are already leaving in large numbers as they are either fed up of balloting (just when it is disappearing!, cancelled meetings, tighter funds etc.). Your strategy would result in Irish racing canabalising itself for the sake of it. We need to maintain what we have to keep the exisiting profile. The product is still top class; the difference is that the customer is accessing it differently. HRI needs to step up to the plate and ensure on behalf of the industry it represents that the “middleman .i.e. Internet Gambling Industry” pay their fair share. Either that or HRI set up their own Irish racing/betting channel monopoly.

I sincerely hope that GO NATIVE is correct in his assertions about blocking internet sites and that those in authority will have the balls to act and not be intimidated by the powerful vested interests of the Bookmakers and those in their pockets.It is very disapointing to see B O’C apparently swallowing the PP spin on this.
I could not agree more about everyone in the industry lobbying for this action to be taken if the leeches continue their exploitation. I very much hope that the HRI and politicians are reading this blog and take on board GO NATIVE’S comments, assuming that he has his facts right.
Surely, as he says, if they can do it in such a vast area as the States, it should be an absolute no-brainer in our little parish.

Double Eclipse I think you make some good points but you are tilting at windmills , you say “The product is still top class; the difference is that the customer is accessing it differently” I agree with part one the product CAN be top class but im afraid you are away withe fairies with part two of your statment , the customer is not accessing the racecourse diferently , he is simply not accessing it at all - isnt that the problem - reduced attendences. When I was a boy the whole family went to Punchestown - had a picnic from the car boot - lemonade and sandwiches we werent rich - this just doesnt happen anymore in any large numbers . there is no point in looking back and saying this will happen again with the right PR or marketing. My children would not go to Punchestown for horse racing and a picnic if I paid them to come with me. That day is gone, they have much more intersting things to do themsleves nowadays. Large number going to races is over and apparently so is large number of horses by the sound of the above blogs re balloting - no harm on either score

always interested in readiing the blogs and i think we should, at this stage of the national hunt season, be talking about the horses and the grrrreat Chel festival and the chances we will be taking having a flutter. think the tipping competition would be a great idea(check out “at the races ” website). its free to enter and just need a valid email address for most of the festivals. can also do some great form study by watching most of the re-runs. maybe an idea for Irishracing.com???? anyway, good luck to all and anybody noticicng the smaller fields of late for the bumpers and maidens? a sign of things to come? i hope not. D

“Don’t believe these slimy PR guys who say it’s impossible - in fact its very, very possible. I hope they do it - sickens me to see PP.com all over Leopardstown when they are the exact scum bags who wont contribute any of their online revenue back to irish racing. Why do HRI/the racecourses let them advertise - forget the short term gain we need to secure the future of irish racing now!!

Comment by Go Native — January 27, 2010 @ 5:30 pm ”

I couldn’t agree more. Very well said.

As regards wondering why Labour are coming up with solutions to sort funding racing - perhaps somebody in HRI is using his/her brains. If I was in HRI, I would also be onto Fine Gael and helping them with some brainstorming too. Build up the political pressure to make changes. It has to change and racing has got to fund itself.

DM, “accessing it differently” means people are physically sitting at a computer/TV to watch racing as appossed to being up on a racecourse stand.

I was in Gowran on Thursday and Leopardstown on Sunday and its obvious the crowds are way down. Weather didn’t help on Thursday but its years since there was such a small crowd at Gowran for the Thyestes. Biggest shock I got on Sunday was that the restaurant opposite the last fence (Silken Glider?) was closed!
Racing has turned full circle in 25 years. Both days the gang I was with (7) all had soup & sandwiches in the car park prior to racing.

Anyway enough of that with regard to Cheltenham here is a few that I will be having a rattle at.

Kyber Kim in the champion
Punchestowns in the RSA
Poker de Sivola (in whatever race he runs in.)

The Referrals Committee Dr. Gordon A. Holmes (in the Chair), Mrs. J.O. Onions and Mr. John Powell met in the Turf Club, The Curragh, Co. Kildare on 28th January 2010 to consider the referral of Mr. John O’Gorman, stable employee of Mr. Charles Byrnes, trainer, by Denis Egan, Chief Executive of the Turf Club, in respect of a possible breach of Rule 273 (xiv) 4(b) which prohibits the holder of a racing establishment employee card to lay any horse under the care and control of the trainer for whom he is employed to lose a race with any person or betting organisation.

Evidence was heard from Mr. Hugh Hynes, Turf Club Integrity Analyst and from Mr. John O’Gorman, who admitted laying nine horses trained by Mr. Charles Byrnes to lose between the dates of 8th May 2008 and 21st December 2008. Details of the horses laid are set out in the attached schedule. The Committee also considered representations made by Charles Byrnes on behalf of John O’Gorman.

Having considered the evidence, the Committee noted that the laying of horses to lose by a racing establishment employee card holder when employed in a trainers yard seriously damages the integrity of racing and that the appropriate penalty for such an offence would be in the region of twelve months. However, in mitigation the Committee acknowledged that John O’Gorman had admitted the offence at an early stage and cooperated fully with the investigation. Having regard for all these circumstances, the Committee imposed a four month disqualification on John O’Gorman with effect from today’s date.

RACES BREACHING RULE 273 (xiv) 4. (b)

(Including betting values)

TWOFAN (USA) 6.25 Clonmel, 8th May 2008

Result: Pulled up, 16 runners.

Placed €1,043.01 on the horse to win. Laid €1,252.48 on the horse risking a net liability of €1,306.58 if the horse had won. Profit from these back and lay transactions totalled €209.47

ROCHESTER ROW (USA) 8.45 Roscommon, 7th July 2008

Result: Finished 13th of 18 runners.

Laid €28.36 risking a liability of €49.09 if the horse had won.

Profit from this lay transaction totalled €28.36

EHOWEE (IRE) 7.35 Down Royal, 3rd September 2008

Result: Finished 14th of 16 runners.

Laid €22, risking a liability of €181.30 if the horse had won.

Profit from this lay transaction totalled €22.

MASK OF DARKNESS (IRE) 3.25 Tralee, 30th September 2008

Result: Finished 11th of 20 runners.

Laid €5, risking a liability of €75 if the horse had won.

Laid €5, risking a liability of €25 if the horse had been placed.

Profit from this lay transaction totalled €10.

LISKENNETT (IRE) 1.55 Navan, 9th November 2008

Result: Finished 8th of 10 runners.

Laid €5, risking a liability of €22.15 if the horse had been placed.

Profit from this lay transaction totalled €5.

MERCHENT PADDY (IRE) 2.50 Gowran, 22nd November 2008

Result: Finished 8th of 14 runners.

Laid €52.17 risking a liability of €1,032.74 if the horse had won.

Laid €293.41 risking a liability of €1,629.80 if the horse had been placed.

Profit from these lay transactions totalled €345.58.

TWOFAN (USA) 3.25 Fairyhouse, 22nd November 2008

Result: Unseated Rider, 12 runners.

Laid €87.20 risking a liability of €1,599.64 if the horse had won.

Laid €124.00 risking a liability of €596.30 if the horse had been placed.

Profit from these lay transactions totalled €211.20.

SOLWHIT (FR) 3.05 Fairyhouse, 29th November 2008

Result: Won, 16 runners.

Laid €3,576.67 risking a liability of €8,607.81 if the horse had won.

Loss from this lay transaction totalled €8,607.81 as the horse won the race.

SOLWHIT (FR) 1.05 Thurles, 21st December 2008

Result: 2nd of 3 runners.

Laid €131.42 risking a liability of €45.74 if the horse had won.

Profit from this lay transaction totalled €131.42

This ban is a bit of a joke. In my opinion Byrnes and O Gorman should be both serving a life time ban. A few facts on the Solwit win in Fhouse

Russell could not ride as he was in England

Tom Doyle rode him and has never ridden a horse for him since

The horse drifted from evens to 4/1

The horse was given a nice ride to win

** removed - irishracing.com **. If attendances was all racing had to worry about things wouldnt be too bad. This is one of the real problems

** removed - irishracing.com **
I think it was Patrick who mentioned in a previous blog about the temptations of skullduggery associated with exchanges. If the shennanigans following Solwhits win are true, then isn’t that proof? There is one thing not expecting your horse to win, but it is a totally other thing trying to ensure that he doesn’t.

Fair play to Tom Doyle for upholding his own integrity and that of racing, by riding the race properly and not succumbing to any pressure to act the complete goat afterwards.

I’d love to know how the syndicate owners of the horse felt about this?

** removed - irishracing.com **

People want to talk about our best horses for Cheltenham - well this is the Champion Hurdle favorite that we are talking about. What will the general public who HRI are trying to entice into racing think of this - bet they cant wait to go and bet on the Hennessey. Wake up HRI and Turf Club. Laying on the likes of Betfair only breeds corruption and the Turf Club Law on it and HRI cosying up to Betfair is a joke.
Sure all your man or somebody from any yard has to do next time is get the wife or brother to do it on their Betfair account and he wil get off scot free. A total joke - nobody is laughing through - because its on all of us.

Two things have struck me after reading the above comments on the nine horses laid to lose,only one won and,if what ssss says is correct,there was an almighty scene in the winners enclosure afterwards.
Firstly,how fortunate must those punters who actually backed Solwhit on that day feel today after reading this and,secondly and much more important,this fiasco surely is a damning indictment of the betting exchanges laying horses to lose.
Anybody can train losers but,in the final analysis,it is the mug punters who are being shafted and a derisory few months ban to proven guilty parties speaks volumes for the lack of integrity in Irish racing.

Feel free to correct me, but I think this is the first case of its kind that the Turf Club has dealt with it since the introduction of the exchanges?, what took them so long?.
I can’t collaborate ssss story as I wasn’t there, but its interesting to say the least.
But what sticks out a mile about the above case imo, is that this stable employee was either a pawn or he threw in the odd red herring to deflect suspicion ,to say that of the some of the stakes involved were meagre is an understatement!, then in a few cases we had a massive increase in stake, which seemed totally out of place with the general conduct of the account.
I’m inclined to think this employee was indeed a pawn and was placing bets for A-Another on occasion and decided to take the rap and protect someone in a more privileged position involved within stable.
The Stud Farmers as usual are lenient in their punishment, and of course the general public are been kept in total darkness as regards the evidence put forward by the defendant, as is the way of the Turf Club in every case that comes before the stewards or disciplinary panel, it seems its none of our businesss?, but their British Counterparts in similar cases put all the evidence on the table for all and sundry to see.

I`m not sure why the last part of my comments were removed. As I say this is fact and can be backed up by several hundred people who were in the winners enclosure in Fhouse on the day. My statements are also backed up by several posters on betfair forum who were there on the day. I will of course abide by the rules here and not mention it again. And this is not a bad maiden winner we are talking about, its the fav for the champion hurdle!!

Patrick, don’t let this story blind you to the other story from the hearings yesterday….I see in the Racing Post that the stud owners gave only three days to Colm O’Donoghue for attacking an apprentice…. Very lenient I would have thought but then he does wear those nice NAVY SILKS.

Byrnes represented him at the hearing, you’d think he’d have fired him and want to distance himself from him…..unless

It is rather strange that my comment was removed given that what I said was, that if somebody connected with a horse tries to ensure that their horse does not win, then this is race fixing and when gambling in exchanges upon that very event, it is an attempt at defrauding the ordinary punters.

I’d love to see a video of the alleged parade ring shenanigans after that race with the horse. Does anybody have a copy or link? After all Solwhit is one of the favourites for the Champion Hurdle and who if it wins that blue riband event in March, will be drapped in the tri-colour thrown at the jockey by a member of HRI. Won’t this be a great representation of Irish racing?

And I forgot to add, that like JOE above, I am absolutely delighted for the people who backed Solwhit on the exchanges and on-course that he won. I think they had luck on their side that day.

dont know why my comment was removed either - I was just praising the jockey Tom Ryan after the alleged “pressure” that he was subjected to in the weigh ring afterwards.

Spot on Patrick and Al - is it common for stablelads have €3,500 handy for an auld bet?

Why is there is so much censorship on some of the postings on this blog. I have read them all before they were removed and they were assertions of fact or comments on those assertions.
What amazes me most in this case is that the Turf Club apparently swallowed hook line and sinker the story that the stable employee acted on his own, using his own money.
All I can say is that Mr. Byrnes must be paying his staff way over the odds if one of them can afford to lose eight and a half grand on a race. The Turf Club, I am afraid, comes out of this as a toothless, ineffective, naive organisation, there to be laughed at by the smart operators in Irish racing.
However, as a saving grace, I am glad to see that Mr. Byrnes decided to introduce a bit of humour into the proceedings with his comment in todauy’s Racing Post “I’m disappointed John got involved in such a thing and I hope it will be a lesson for all stable staff” - Talk about having a neck like a jockey’s b***ix (or should that be a trainer’s similar appendange)

May I also add, on the question of winning jockeys being told not to weigh in. I can’t corroborate ssss’s account as I wasn’t at Fairyhouse that day, but it would not have been the first time for this to happen in Irish racing. Does anyone remember the case at a Northern meeting some years ago when a young jockey was intimidated into not weighing in after foiling a massive gamble? There was uproar on the track with the bookies going on strike for the rest of the meeting. I cannot remember what - if any - official action was taken

Well said Derek, Byrnes been all holier than thou, hilarious!!, though I wouldn’t say that the Stud Farmers are naive Derek, more to the point cases like these are more of a burden and inconvenience, they’re an incestual organisation that would much rather bury their head in the sand and hope it will all go away rather than have to slightly irritate a native, as we all know virtually every punishment they dish out is just a minor irritant to the perpetrators, but every now and then they have to be shown to be doing something to justify their existence as a regulatory body.

Yeh mike the punishment dished out to O’Donoghue for an act of physical violence to a fellow jockey is probably the most farcical punishment yet among many farcical punishments they have dished out over the years, what message is that sending out?? that if you physically attack someone you will only get a 3 day ban, spare me!.
……………………………………………………………………..
Having considered the evidence, the Committee indicated that offences that take place in the weighroom/jockey room area are exceptionally serious. They did, however, take into account the attitude of C. O’Donoghue and that he had admitted the offence through his solicitor. They also noted that C. O’Donoghue had apologised to D.E. Mullins for what had happened. Taking all of the above into consideration, the Committee found C. O’Donoghue in breach of Rule 272 and suspended him for three race days (26th February, 12th and 21st March 2010).

If an English trainer or his staff tried to stop his horse from winning a race in England and laid him on the exchanges in England, would the English authorities refer it to the Police for further investigation of any criminal activities? Or would the Police in England investigate without referral?

In Ireland does matters of corruption in racing have to be referred by the Turf Club to the Garda or are the Garda free to act on their own? In fact is it a crime here in Ireland?

Conspiracy to defraud would be a criminal offence CH, in this case the Turf Club are citing rule 273.

“Rule 273 (xiv) 4(b) which prohibits the holder of a racing establishment employee card to lay any horse under the care and control of the trainer for whom he is employed to lose a race with any person or betting organisation.”

Basically this stable employee was doing this all on his own steam in the Turf Clubs interpretation of things, but many believe that the Stud Farmers refused to probe further just incase they unearthed something much more sinister, so in a nutshell let the lowly stable employee take the rap and move on quickly and everyone will forget about it in a few days.
Why as I have said numerous times is the evidence given at Turf Club enquiries not available to the public?, by not making the evidence available invites the accusation that they have something to hide or are protecting the natives from the publics glaze?.

Patrick, I agree that the Turf Club are shooting themselves in the foot by not divulging all the details of enquires, but I doubt if they set out to find a pawn guilty in this case.
I am certain that they were going after bigger fish, but couldn’t get evidence that would hold up in a court of law.
That is the dilemma for them. Down the years several people have taken them to court (including Jim Bolger over a case at Naas) and won so they are right to be prudent and not leave themselves wide open to litigation.

The Colm O’Donoghue suspension, however, is more difficult to understand.

CH The Gardai are free to investiagte any such matter in Ireland. They dont need a referral from anybody and of course this is a crime under the Criminal Code. BUT do you think that any Garda Superintendent is going to order his men to investigate - not likely. They would consider it too time consuming and difficult and would be afraid of making fools of themselves. They wouldnt know what law to invoke or how to prsecute the case to a positive conclusion. Exactly the same as all those blokes who bribed politicians and bever denied it either. They are guilty of a serious crimnial offence but will not be prosecuted for the same reason stipulated . The Gaurds only want to do work that they know and have experience at, they will not attempt to prosecute in any untried areas

http://betdiary.com/garyobrien

At least one Racing Journalist/reporter had the balls to question this shady case, unlike most of his ilk, not one of them questioned the farcical loophole that allowed Carberry to ride while banned when the Turf Club were well aware of the loophole, and could have given Carberry a calender ban instead, not one of them questioned why a lowly stable employee would be let anywhere near a horse of Dunguibs ability with a syringe, let alone to actually alledgedly? accidently administer a banned substance because he mistook Dunguib for another horse, yeh right! mistook Dunguib???.

Joe I’d like to believe you that the Turf Club were actually after bigger fish, but there’s so much evidence to the contrary.
The BHA decided to dish out their own punishment for similar cases after the collapse of the Old Bailey trial, so Joe the Turf Club have plenty of powers at their disposal if they so wish, no need to go anywhere near civil law.

Yes Patrick, fair play to Gary O’Brien.

DM - of course you are right.

From BOC in todays Times,

Betting inquiry was ‘hamstrung’
In this section »

BRIAN O’CONNOR

THE TURF Club believe its investigation into betting patterns involving a race won by the Champion Hurdle favourite Solwhit was “hamstrung” by its inability to access phone records.

Although the Irish Racehorse Trainers Association yesterday again expressed its complete objection to the Turf Club being allowed to examine its members’ phone records and financial accounts, the regulatory body expects to reveal detailed proposals into the matter in the next two months.

The question of access to racing professional’s phone accounts is coming to a head again on the back of an employee of Solwhit’s trainer Charles Byrnes being disqualified for four months after laying horses trained by Byrnes on Betfair between May and December of 2008.

In the first case of its kind in Ireland, John O’Gorman was disqualified after laying horses nine times on the internet exchange.

After Solwhit won a handicap hurdle at Fairyhouse in November 2008, the Turf Club launched an investigation which led to O’Gorman’s disqualification on Thursday.

“We would like to have accessed phone records in this matter and were definitely hamstrung by our inability to do that under current powers. It may have assisted us had we access to such records,” said the Turf Club chief executive Denis Egan yesterday.

“Other concerns were brought to our attention on this issue but we could only go so far under the powers open to us.”

Egan added: “We expect to publish detailed proposals on this in the next two months. We are not proposing what the BHA has done in Britain and ban phones in the weighroom. But we do hope to organise some mechanism to allow us access, under stringent rules and conditions, to information if required.”

However, the Trainers Association stressed yesterday its objection to any such move and spokesman Jim Kavanagh said: “We obviously want to co-operate with the maintaining of integrity but we unanimously feel that the only people entitled to look at our phone records, our training accounts and our bank accounts are the Gardaí.”

New Phase looks the day’s best bet at Fairyhouse but action is dependant on a 7.30 inspection due to the threat of frost.

………………………………………………….
Make of that what you like, I’m no law expert but I presume if the Turf Club really wanted to they could have got access to phone records if they so wished, as for not going as far as the BHA by banning phones from the weigh room altogether, err? why the hell not?.

Well Patrick, given the allegations that surround the Solwhit episode and the alleged enclosure shennanigans, the laying of the horse on the exchange, would it not have been very easy for the Turf Club to request that assistance of the Garda?

This is the Alpha Royale and Laetitia race which was the greatest setup ever and referred to by Gary O’Brien

http://www.attheraces.com/VideoConsole/?va=COR_2005_04_24_05_1655

What is it they say, a leopard never changes its spots?

solwhit case could be the one to shake things up!!!!!!!

Surprising there is no response to Denis Egans belated statement I notice?, when its quite obvious it was a statement he only made because he was probed by a racing journalist or two.

“Other concerns were brought to our attention on this issue but we could only go so far under the powers open to us.”

Any chance of publishing the defendants evidence on your pathetic website then Denis???, so the general public can see why you have those other concerns , or maybe either yourself or one of your staff comes on to this blog to explain why you insist on keeping the general public in total darkness? I won’t wait up!!!, maybe a racing hack out there just might probe them as to why the Turf Club insist on this policy of virtual silence as regards Turf Club enquiries, when the BHA leave no stone unturned as to reasons why they came to their decision and all of the evidence from the defendants is in the public domain.

CH I ahve just looked at that Video you posted up with Laetitia and Alpha Royale - what a fiasco ?? What happened about that race afterwards or what was the story . I have seen a lot but never anyhthing that balatant. Dessie Scahill said he only had to press the button - but he dint- did he also say both were trained by the same trainer ?? amazing stuff ? makes me feel quite naive actually

It is a pity Tom Doyle did weigh in that day. There would have been some explaining to do. Charles wouldn’t have been representing OGorman he would have been busy representing himself

As a little light relief from the Byrnes story I wanted to say that I went to Punchestown today expecting a recession-friendly deal of ‘e15 including a racecard’ deal. The carpark was half empty when I arrived, and when I approached the gates I saw, ‘admission e18.’ ‘Excuse me,’ said one of the hawkers, ‘have ya gotta ticket?’ ‘No,’ I replied. ‘Here,’ she said, pushing a complimentary ticket into my hand, ‘gimme a tenner.’ ‘No problem’ I replied and duly did the deal. Punchestown management, if you are listening, I feel absolutely NO guilt, whatsoever.

I do have to mention Dobbins Bistro’s stand however; wonderful value. Tea for soup and a roll for e3, stew for e7. They get it, Punchestown don’t.

P.S. the more I hear of the Byrne exchange enquiry the more I think that the old war horse, Patrick, should be the next president of Ireland, and we havn’t seen eye-to-eye in the past.

“Rule 273 (xiv) 4(b) which prohibits the holder of a racing establishment employee card to lay any horse under the care and control of the trainer for whom he is employed to lose a race with any person or betting organisation”

The way most of the chancers can get around this law is to lay the horse by using the account set up in the girlfriends or brothers name. Once they have the codes they can put on the bet themselves or get someone else to do it. This needs to be addressed somehow - my preference is for laying of horses on the likes of betfair to be outlawed altogether. Amending the law and trying to prove that such a lay has taken place is nearly impossible to prove.

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