Fighting The Tide

What will phone records tell the Turf Club in an enquiry? That said trainer/jockey spoke to punter/bookmaker before race?

You don’t need a phone for that. Half the time the bloody horse is owned by the punter/bookmaker anyway.

A jockey is not allowed to own a horse (his wife is), but there are no such restrictions on bookmakers.

In fact if it was a stipulation of horse ownership that you could not have an exchange account it might not be a bad thing.

Yet another golden opportunity missed to shake the Turf Club out of their slumber, just checked the national newspapers, total silence!. Brian was almost sympathetic to the stud farmers plight, give us a break Brian!, what about the other issues like why their punishments are minor irritants? why the public are kept in total darkness?, why their website is like something from the stone age?……..etc etc.
I’m really looking forward to more of Tony O’Hehirs sycophantic ramblings in this weeks racing post, only Gary O’Brien had balls, but his article was hidden away on a blog away from most observers.
The words from a Suzanne Vega song spring to mind,

“We skirt around the danger zone, and don’t talk about it later”.

Oh yeh total silence about the O’Donoghue assault as well, considering the punishment dished out, if missing a few aw Dundalk meetings can be described as a punishment, a subject you would think would be rife for discussion.
Could you imagine say Gallas assaulting Fabregas in the dressing room, the soccer press would be all over the story like flies to shite.
The racing press are mostly just a bunch of Manuel’s, “I know nothing”.

does any body know where i could purchase video of that famous race out of the fog and(goings on in parade ring after)
that seems to of convinced those present that winning party would of prefered jockey had not weighed in.

all the bits of this story are both disgusting and fascinating for
me as a racing fan. would shy away from racing if the norm was for this skuldugery to be let slip quietely away.

Brian, I’ve not actually seen the marketing you speak of, but I recall a similar thing from their first meeting in the Gold Cup in 2008. Nothing could alienate me from my enthusiasm of this clash, but as you say, the campaign is not directed at the likes of me.

I’m all for the idea in principle to try and bring in new audiences on the back of the Kauto/Denman clash, but needs to be done in the right way. While it won’t get front page coverage I’m sure the backpage will be dominated by this clash.

As I’ve said before, I just hope the ground isn’t in either’s favour and they both stand up and we should get a cracking contest. My money is on the champion for what it’s worth.

I’m starting to get a bit uneasy about all this talk of Dunguib and the champion hurdle. They would be mad not going for the Novices race this year. They will have years and years to have a crack at the big one, this is the only year they can go for the supreme. Surely they would have to have given him a run in the Irish equivalent if he was to gauge if he was ready. The pace will be hot and frenzied as ever in the champion and Dunguib may not be able to dictate terms. Mr. Fenton, if you’re listenting:

DON’T DO IT!

@ really you’ll find the replay on the ATR website, you need to register but it’s free, no parade ring unfortunately.

We’ll done Brian, you had a few paragraphs in there on horses!
Never been a big Zeb fan think current 6/1 is too short for him, too many question marks.

Is it just me or is this column getting worse all the time? It was not much to start with either.

Of all the sporting press in the world only one is spineless, GUESS WHO?, the gravy train is often over used when it comes to racing journalists, no! in fact its under used!!!.

Give some credit to those trying to encourage and create an anticipated dual between two great horses. Rosettes might not be to everybody’s liking but at least they are trying. The US put a lot of effort into creating hero’s and heroine’s of racing. A poster on here before mentioned about the marketing with badges and posters of Rachel Alexandra at a meeting in Saratoga. McCririck had posters of Zenyatta during the Breeders Cup. Fair play to them. Here is a link or at least I hope is a link from an interview with one of those charged with promoting racing in the UK. It was done by Racing UK :
http://www.racingpost.com/media/media_centre.sd?view=splash
(It was at the beginning of January, just in case the actual interview doesn’t load automatically.)

Alienating the committed? This comes up again and again. What or who are the committed or diehards? Next time you refer to them Brian, perhaps you can define who or what they are? Are the committed ones you refer to, the ones who don’t go a meeting because of Ladies Day? Or the ones who don’t attend a meeting, because they would prefer to sit at home with their laptop in front of the TV, probably having a punt offshore? Give me a break. More people attend racing for the social aspect of racing than any other segment or group through the turnstiles. Racing is for everybody, and if a Denman scarf making its way to a young nipper, imprints something positive about racehorses and horseracing into the subconscious for later life then, it is a “morkoting” job, very well done.

If they both run, Kauto will win, but my heart would always be with Denman. The 2008 Denman was a superstar and I’d just love to see him reappear again.

I asked the question on the previous blog about the legality of backing your own horse to lose and doing everything in your power to make sure he lost even to the extent of trying to stop your jockey from weighing in when is tantamount to defrauding innocent punters. One response was that it is a crime in Ireland. If it is a crime, why the hell not bring the Gardai into it for these serious offences?

Regarding access to phone records etc.. the Turf Club should be provided with them at their request. As Charlie McCreevy said when he was granting powers to the Revenue Commissioners to investigate and review anybody’s bank records and accounts without notice – you have nothing to be afraid of, if you have nothing to hide (or words to that effect).

Given some of the shenanigans that have been highlighted recently on this blog and others (Gary O’Brien’s – where he lists a previous offence with the same trainer), I have to say that I used to think that Patrick was completely paranoid. Maybe I was just naive!

Niall – Dunguib won’t run in the champion hurdle as the current field in that race is very strong according to the trainer. It was just an entry to keep all options open as it only cost £430. Here is the trainers blog :

http://www.racingpost.com/blog/horse-racing/philip-fenton/its-an-entry-absolutely-nothing-more/673000/

Personally if I owned him and I thought he was good enough, I’d run him in it and let him take his chance. I’m always of the opinion, that a horse is always old enough, big enough, courageous enough, fast enough, if they are good enough. Not many horses are made of steel and an injury can finish any horses career.

CH, I was never paranoid but I came from out of the blue to upset their comfort zone, and some on here knocked me down originally but slowly but surely they’re starting to realise that the so called regulatory body are nothing of the sort, a bunch of spineless stud farmers, harsh as it may sound but its the truth, its a pity the spineless racing media let them off almost scot free!, and now they have a wonderful opportunity without even jeopardising the gravy train and still they bottle it??

I do tear my hair out at times with these racing journalists, I cannot believe that a sporting media can be so pathetically spineless???

Patrick – I am in general agreement with you about our spineless media, but there are a few notable exceptions and I will be disappointed if one of those I do respect, i.e. Alan Sweetman, does not have something to say on the Solwhit enquiry in his Racing Post column on Wednesday. Alan, don’t let me down !

CH this Byrnes/Solwhit fieaco really got you animated and rightly so . I looked at your link to that Laetitia race and as I said in the last blog I never saw antyhing like it – ever – what was the outcome of all that ? Regarding your query on why the Gardai dont investigate I said the following before

“CH The Gardai are free to investigate any such matter in Ireland. They dont need a referral from anybody and of course this is a crime under the Criminal Code. BUT do you think that any Garda Superintendent is going to order his men to investigate – not likely. They would consider it too time consuming and difficult and would be afraid of making fools of themselves. They wouldnt know what law to invoke or how to prosecute the case to a positive conclusion. Exactly the same as all those blokes who bribed the politician. They are guilty of a serious crimnial offence but will not be prosecuted for the same reason stipulated . The Gardai only want to do work that they know and have experience at, they will not attempt to prosecute in any untried areas

Finally as regards your refernce to McCreevy he is hardly somebody to talk about being “In Compliance” with banking or revenue or Irish Nationwide loan apllications in view of what was in this paper a few weeks back

Having being present at the 2008 Gold Cup I have to say the marketing efforts on that occasion were seriously successful. Racing was on the front page , TV , radio etc. The race was much hyped and thankfully lived up to its billing. Everyone picked sides and in many cases pinned their colours to the mast.
It was surely the most
anticipated Gold Cup since possibly Dawn Run’s Gold Cup. A couple of factors heightened the anticipation on the day. The day’s cancellation gave everyone an extra day’s drin of banter and discussion and the fact the race took place much later in the card . What harm can this marketing do?

You are all right about Irish racing hacks. What are they getting paid for?

This was a perfect opportunity for them to get their teeth into a proper story, but not one of them has bothered to get off their ass and investigate the wrong doings.

Someone should interview Tom Doyle!!

Did betfair come forward with the betting details or did Turf Club request them?
What really went on in parade ring at Fairyhouse?

Give us more details about the fall guy!!

A conspiracy of silence abounds… hardly surprising considering the cosy relationships that permeate throughout Irish Racing. The Modus Operandum is “Don’t rock the boat”

Well said Simon.

I was in Wexford that day and all the talk was of Solwhit’s seemingly unwelcome victory in Fairyhouse. Now Wexford must be at least 90 miles from Fairyhouse yet we seemed to know a lot more about the shenannigans than either the stewards or the media.
If either of racing’s watchdogs had done their duty that day we wouldn’t now be in the situation where the potential Champion Hurdle winner has cast a cloud over the integrity of Irish racing. Whereas English racing will rightly acclaim their great champions if either Denman or Kauto star win the Gold Cup, the Irish champion hurdler will unfortunately be better remembered for winning the Ladbrokes 1800 777 888 Handicap Hurdle (Grade C) at Fairyhouse on November 29th 2008.
If Solwhit does win the Champion Hurdle the same press figures will be falling over themselves to eulogise about him. Charles Byrnes is a great trainer . It’s a pity his name gets associated with such happenings.

CH – thanks for the link. I appreciate that, it puts my mind at ease. I understand your point of view, but I still think my argument about trying him against the big guns holds water.

I think it would be wreckless to throw him in against 6 or 7 top class, older, battle hardened hurdlers at the festival without ever facing them before. Dunguib has never been off the bridle thus far so it would be a complete shot in the dark.

No, the Supreme is the way to go and a year older and stronger I fully expect him to come back next year and win the first of many champion hurdles. He really looks like a special horse and I will be very disappointed if he doesn’t oblige on March 16th in the Supereme.

Finally as regards your refernce to McCreevy he is hardly somebody to talk about being “In Compliance” with banking or revenue or Irish Nationwide loan apllications in view of what was in this paper a few weeks back

Good one DM. I like the referance to In Compliance the horse owned by Mr Mc Creevy!!!!

Patrick – I no longer hold my misconception that you were paranoid in your views of Irish racing.

DM – According to Gary O’Briens piece, Laetitia got suspended but the trainer exposed some loophole in the regulations to allow her run under appeal and whats even more hilarious (stated with a hint of scarcasm) he landed a gamble on her during the appeal! I have been to fair few pony races over the years, and while it must be one of the most crooked events run, I never witnessed anything like that race. Something as obvious as the events in that race, should lead to lifetime bans as should threatening a jockey, when he won a race.

Re the Gardai – I did read your response to the last one, but I asked this time why don’t the Turf Club refer it. If right was right it would happen, and dare I say that it probably would happen in England. Also I was hoping that some racing enthusiast in the upper echelons of the Garda Suiochana might stumble across these type of blogs, and actually decided to do something about it.

Niall – I guess you don’t think Dunguib is good enough for the Champion this year and reading between the lines I think your view is shared by Philip Fenton. It would only be reckless if he is not near good enough. Personally I think he is a very classy animal and I don’t think I’d back anything against him in it if he competed. That said he’ll walk the Supreme Novices Hurdle.

The Gardai wouldn’t be bothered to investigate something for 8 grand, cars worth more get stolen every day and they just file reports and hope they show up, you think they’re going to put a task force together to investigate this? The most they could get out of it would be throwing O’Gorman in jail for a few days, he’d probably get away with a fine….that’s really going to send ripples through the industry.

It’s up to HRI to sort out until the money involved gets larger.

A realtive of my wifes is a chief super in Gaurds. When I mentioned to him the criminality of the Byrnes episode he laughed at the good of it and basically his view was well more luck to the layers if they can get a crack at the bookies an odd time didnt Eddie O Grady have a go years ago with a ringer in England. When I explained that the bookies werent hit he didnt understand or care. Also a friend of this man is in a syndicate that has a horse with Charles Byrnes and they love him – So where do you go with that kind of enforcement ???

Maybe that’s the answer DM. We should form a syndicate and put a horse (called Fog Off)with Charles.Patrick can head it up.

Tom Doyle can ride and we’ll all live happily ever after.

CH – I think he has realistic claims in the champion hurdle. He is 4/1 fav with a run with one bookmaker. So they think he has a 25% chance of winning, or in reality maybe 30% when you factor in the bookies margin.

I just think the bumper, novices, champion route is tried and trusted and he will never have another chance to win the supreme, – a great race in it’s own right.

Oh….and I’ve backed him antepost!!

Well DM, that answers that. I suppose I should have known better. The boy in blue much prefers to be out with his hair dryer and suntan lotion in the summer hidding behind ditches like Tommy Tiernan described as “crouching f#*king tiger, hidden Garda” looking for tax or prosecuting a mother for driving her kids to school for wearing flip flops, or a widow doing 1kmh over the speed limit on her way to a funeral home where here husband was laid out. I could go on and on and on.

Niall, I hear you. I understand your point of view and I agree that the Supreme Novices is a serious race to win.

Guys there was never any chance of the Gardai investigating this case, to be honest in the broader scheme of things it was a mere drop in the ocean, you only have to see the farce that played out at the Old Bailey a few year ago the folly of bringing racings problems to the public courts.
The BHA did finally get their men but through their own powers, to some across the water most of the protaganists got away extremely lightly but compared to this country their justice seemed positively draconian in comparison.
Alan Sweetman wrote a fantastic piece in todays Racing Post, well in racing journalist terms it was a brave piece.
Alans article is comprehensive, so I’m going to just type his final few paragraphs.
……………………………………………………………………

“We can only be left wondering what O’Gorman’s responses were that provided the rationale behind the leniency of a ban that seems ludicrously at odds with the nature of an offence which undermines the confidence of the betting public in the regulation of racing.
Whatever the speculation, this was the first case of its kind to be investigated to a punitive conclusion in Ireland. The Turf Club had an opportunity to send out a strong message regarding the laying of horses by persons with privileged information, but failed to establish a benchmark punishment to show that it means business and to serve as a deterrent to any stable employees who might be similary tempted in the future.
It would be naive to view the O’Gorman case as an isolated instance.
……………………………………………………………………..
While Alan did question the Turf Club referrals committee lack of information published on the case, he never came straight out and asked why they insist on keeping the public in the dark.

Patrick, I am pleased that Alan Sweetman justified the faith I expressed in him earlier in this blog as being one of the few Irish racing journalists prepared to put his head above the parapet. Too much, I suppose, to expect, his senior colleague in the Post, Tony O’Hehir, to follow suit, and I just
can’t wait to read the editorial in The Irish Field next Saturday

Derek the Field will probably ignore it altogether or it will be hidden away as mere footnote.
I have praised Alan Sweetman before on a previous blog Derek, a rare species indeed in a profession where sucking up to the natives is by in large the number one priority.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/feb/03/irish-turf-club-corrupt-stable-lad

****NEWS FLASH************
SOLWHIT on his own facebook page;
Solwhit
Tom did a good job, I was being prepared for another race and the race was a prep, but Iam Solwhit and Iam that good, no stopping me!

yeah not the horses fault – he is a good un and oblivious to the Skulduggery and controversy surrounding his runs.
For Cheltenham, if he wins now, it will not be a poular one to see the boyos collecting their winnings and if he loses the questions will be asked -he is now damned if he does and damned if he does not.

I think Binocular is good enough e/w value at 8/1 and cannot see him being out of the top 3. JP is on record as well as saying he regards it as his best hope for 2010 Cheltenham honours. There will be different race tactics this year as well.

I thought it would be Binocular’s year before the start of the season Ruprecht but I couldn’t back him on this year’s form.

I think it’s looking quite good for an Irish victory this year. I’ve plumped for Sublimity and Celestial Halo e/w at a price but won’t be getting heavily involved.

A race to watch and enjoy this year.

Can anybody help? My local bookie is refusing to pay out on my placepot in clonmel today. Capitoline Hill came 4th in the 1st, 18 runner maiden hurlde. He’s claiming ignorance to the tote rules that 4th counts for placepots. How do i get my money? He shouldn’t take the bets if he doesn’t know the rules.

contact the levy department in Horseracing ireland, they will advise you

Is the above poster from Finland?,

Barry why don’t you contact the punters platform?, you will find it on Saturdays Daily Star, use to be on Fridays evening herald, its great for settling minor betting disputes.

Cheers lads. Contacted JM and just need to send him copy of slip and bookie’s phone number and should be sorted. Just out of interest i’ve noticed while there was a code of practise introduced for on-course bookmakers in 2004, there is none whatsoever for shops

All I know Barry that shops are suppose to have their rules clearly displayed on their premises.

Looked at them, they say he should not accept irish placepots! Asked him about that a few months back and he told me irish placepots were no problem. Says all placepots should be payed out as per “Rules of racing”, I assume that is to do with “1st past the post” and other bookie specials.

They poster of rules Says all ^

hey Barry

you should make an objection to this bookies licence at your local garda station.

With all the skulduggery, dramatic twists and shady characters, not the mention the incompetent powers-that-be that being made fools of by the wily criminals, don’t you wonder why nobody writes racing Thrillers in this country? If this forum is anything to go by, there’s a huge appetite for stories from the underbelly of the Irish racing world.

Dermot Weld proved he could write last year, and Brian O’ Connor can put a sentence together when he puts his mind to it? Any suggestions as to who could put Ireland on the map in the racing-thriller genre?

Interesting developments indeed!

http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/irish-turf-officials-vote-for-industrial-action/678822/latest/

……………………………………………………………………………..
D.D. who wants fiction, how about a warts and all depiction of the murkier side of Irish racing by some disgruntled long time stable employee.

Patrick is in his element with the blog this week as it relates to gambling and he sure knows a lot about gambling on horses . Unfortuanately he is a bit one dimensional though. As soon as the blogs change to other equine matters as hopefully they will I am sure he will revert to type

Isn’t this website called Irishracing.com?, funny the recent vote to strike by Turf Club employees was deemed to be not much of a news story that they couldn’t even afford it a mere footnote on this sites news link, baffling?.

In reply to the Stud Farmer, David Beckham was pretty one dimensional but man he had a beautiful and lethal right boot!.

Dunguib obliges readily but his shaky jumping brings home the need for him to stick to the novices. Superb and all as he is I don’t think he would win a champion hurdle with the way he tackled those hurdles today. It will be good enough for the Supreme though.

It will be interesting to see how he fares off the bridle. We may not find out this season!

Cracking interview with Charles Byrnes there on RTE. Well done Robert Hall.

Niall, he wouldn’t have a hope in this years champion hurdle with that display of awkward jumping. While I did think he would walk the Supreme Novices earlier in the week, and he most likely will still win but he is too short of a price based on todays display.

Surely, with this much class, Dubguib deserves to be campaigned on the flat for a season before reverting to hurdles next year, with the Champion Hurdle as the target. He has very little to prove – with a guaranteed faster pace and better jumping we all know he wont be beaten in Supreme. But his jumping needs working on, as Philip Fenton, has pointed out, so why not give him the opportunity to have a tilt at, say, the Melbourne Cup this year, while working on his jumping for next year.

Taking Dunguib to Cheltenham this year will, at best, prove what we already know – he is a Supreme Novices ‘good thing,’ but at worst it could undermine his confidence as a hurdler, or cause injury. As he proved last year, Dunguib horse is a class apart when racing on the ‘flat’… let this star follow his bliss…

Oh those training medications!!

with the frost not as bad in Dublin on Sun 21st would it be been an option to transfer Naas card to Leopardstown for Monday 22nd

frost not as bad in Dublin on Sun 21st would it be been an option to transfer Naas card to Leopardstown for Monday 22nd