The Cost Of Cutting

Brian,
You are probably right that HRI have made a mess of dealing with their reduced gift from the country’s tax payers, but I have little sympathy for the Turf Club either.
They shoot themselves in the foot so often with their penalties and sanctions that they are crippled beyond repair.
Never mind the recent debacle with Charles Byrnes and the laughable ban for Colm O’Donoghue, but what about the never ending issue of children in the parade ring.
‘Strictly no children allowed in the parade ring’ reads the sign at every track in the country, but it is never enforced. They are probably afraid that some toddler is going to sue them.
Some day a child is going to be badly injured or worse and it will cost more than €282,000 to sort that one out.

Even if there was a sign saying “strictly no children allowed”, they would not escape legal liability, liability to children is strict. It is the same as the ESB being liable if a child get electroucted while climbing a pylon even if there are are large signs warning against it. There might be a question of contibutory negligence for the parents bringing the child in to the ring but thats all. A sign does not of itself absolve a negligent owner from liablity

“Often the accusations come from those cloaked in cosy anonymity whose bilious rants are free from the restraints of responsibility or the threat of having to stand over their opinions in public, or indeed, in a court of law.”

mmmm…i wonder who that’s aimed at. i think your comments hit a nerve last week Patrick.

Good turnout at Leopardstown, HRI should be bigging up Dunguib like Kauto/Denman in the UK, he seems to have pulling power.

Pittoni was impressive as well, looks good value at 16s

Oh I’ve no doubt Al that statement was indeed aimed mainly at me, probably fueled over a beer or two with a Turf Club big wig, I’m a little dissapointed considering for the most part I have been singing the praises of BOC, but it seems he doesn’t like to be criticised.

I’m not going to say much as you are well aware of my feelings regarding the subject matter of todays blog,
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“But ultimately it is not chief executive Denis Egan’s fault if he is put in a position where he has to look for E282,000 in cuts. Who has put him in that position except HRI, whose decision to slash across the board has been exposed as hopelessly short-sighted.”
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I can’t buy into the excuses offered up by Brian for the Turf Clubs current plight, I would have some sympathy if they had made some effort during the gravy train days, the integrity of Irish racing was never a priority then and isn’t a priority now, but low and behold now they have a ready made excuse to continue their appeasement rather than prevention policy.

On another subject I must add a bit of praise for the often derided Racing Post for the new Irish Edition of the paper although it should have been available years earlier.
I’m not sure about the Willie Mullins weekly column though, if yesterdays pessimistic mumblings are anything to go by, especially as regards Cooldine, who suddenly and miraculously bounced back to form, if his pessimistic mumblings are to be believed and Cooldine wasn’t anywhere near peak form for yesterdays big race and to be only just ran out of it close home, the horse must be a serious threat to the big two in the Gold Cup.

My understanding about the integrity fund, was that HRI were seeking savings through efficiency rather than implementing cuts thereby not reducing activity. If this is correct and is what was in their press release (as I have checked it), then how could it have the anecdotal effects that are mentioned? Or is this “anecdotal evidence” an urban myth? Surely HRI/Turf Club have metrics which they use for implementing their standard testing and routines, and if they have I’d love to see the 2009, 2010 numbers and records to prove or disprove the anecdotal tales in conjuntion with comparisons to the metrics of Britain and France. If what Brian suggests is indeed fact, then it is simply wrong to have just slashed this element of expenditure for all the obvious reasons. On the other hand, if the same numbers are employed now as were employed in 2009 and what Brian has said is the case, then it is an entirely different problem. I suppose I’d just love to see the facts in black and white as truthfully anecdotal tales don’t mean a lot to me.

Anybody know how much the stipendiary stewarts are paid to do their work at the race meetings? Probably not a lot, or not enough. I think that the track staff involved in race meetings do a good job and again for probably not a lot. I hope that the inevitable wage cuts were implemented in accordance with HRI’s press release which meant the ones on the bottom rung of the ladder don’t suffer.

Dunguib needs to improve his jumping significantly. He looked so awkward, I was afraid at most hurdles that he would injure himself. An on form Kauto Star or Denman are in a different league to Cooldine unfortunately so I won’t be expecting Irish victory in the Gold Cup.

Re children in the ring - I got thrown out once when I had my daughter with me. I knew I was 100% wrong, but didn’t get noticed by one of the security guys when he was answering somebody’s query. We were there on our own, and I couldn’t have anybody mind her when the jockey and trainer were in the parade ring. The trainer nearly dropped when I told the steward’s that if my name was O’Brien, then maybe he would let us stay, as he proceeded to tell me that the trainer gets fined for this infringement of the rules. My comment was uncalled for and as I said I knew I shouldn’t have brought her in. The fact that she grew up around horses, rides ponies etc means nothing when the rules are the rules. I was completely wrong, but I do feel there should be one rule for all irrelevant of who you are, with the only exception being for a photograph with a winning horse. So I guess I’m a sinner too …

Yes, Dunguib is a freak. Jump racing is in it’s Golden Age with him Kauto Star and Denman. His jumping is too “guessy” though and with a far stronger pace @ Cheltenham it will have improove 100+%; add in the hussle and bussle of a novices event there and you have a receipe for disaster. Time for a phone call to Con Power?

CH ‘anecdotal evidence’ would suggest that stipendary stewards are paid extremely well. They earn decent basic salaries topped up by high expenses and shift allowances for working Sunday’s.
The newer recruits - in last two years - are on much worse terms and conditions, but do exactly the same jobs.

The Turf Club dont care about human beings. They are cold, soulless, money driven accountants. If they could hire in eastern european staff they would.

The way they sold and gutted the stand househotel reminded me of the David Niven ,Around the World in 40 days, where he tore up the boat piece by piece to burn in the boileroom fire.

They have no compassion and wont budge on pay to the Turf Club employees. They hate Unions more than they hate the anti-hunting lobby and this I feel, is the real reason why they wont pay.

I hope Micheal O Donaghue and his association bring him all the way, but to receive a fair hearing in the Courts, which are full of friendly Turf Club allies, will be difficult.

I agree Dungib was impressive but his Jumping will have to improve. He may be caught out at Cheltenham and hes no odds on shot in my book. The ex-Tom Mullins trained Menorah looks better value now, he has beaten a horse with some decent form something Dungib has yet to encounter. But that said, you can only beat whats put in front of you and he cant be more impressive than he already is.

Best of Luck to him and connections.

The Turf Club are a bunch of ego tripping, twats!!!!!

If they want to go on strike let them and get Joe Soap to do their job!!

After all its not exactly the most complicated of jobs!!

Duinguib is very impressive on the flat. A superb finish by horse and jockey on the home straight and run in yesterday.
Would worry about him though at those odds in the Novices hurdle. That race is normally run at such a cracking pace right from the off you cannot afford either to make a hurdling error at the pace or take the hurdles too gingerly either as you will have too much ground to make up. A couple of owners and/or trainers may try and exploit this by running a couple of horses (one a pacemaker) to even further rank up the pace.
What a great start to the festival it should be.

Speaking of beating whats put in front of you, Binocular did not do too bad over the week-end. The 8/1 is gone now - he has been trimed into 6/1 second fav. I still aint selling that ante post docket.

Do not worry strike will not take place so close to Cheltenham where a
lot of Turf Club Officials can be seen, by the way who pays for these
trips the Officials themselves or the Turf Club ???????

A most interesting and thought-provoking blog by Brian this week,in my humble opinion.
One point made by Brian which caught my attention………micro-chipping tests on horses going racing are apparently almost non-existent these days…….
Does this mean that punters are now running the additional risk of the horse on the racecard being different from the horse on the racecourse?
I ask that not to make mischief but,if the security door is left open, metaphorically speaking,then it is reasonable to assume that some cute character would have no difficulty exploiting this loophole.

Having watched last year’s race with Go Native, I think the only thing that will beat Dunguib is a fall.

This could be due to his relatively poor technique or being knocked out of his stride in the hurly burly. I dare say that he will be dropped out the back out of harm’s way and will work his way into it around the outside. He will probably travel farther than any other horse, but I reckon that he is good enough for that not to be an issue.

Really looking forward to this race. I love the first 3 races, Supreme, Arkle, Champion - a rip roaring start to the festival.

I think there’s too much been made of Dunguibs jumping, hurdlers often jump better off a strong pace, normally I would get very excited by a horse of Dunguibs abilty but sorry for been a killjoy and I don’t join in with the well wishers and back patters of the parade ring as the circumstances surrounding the horses failed drug test were very fishy indeed and not explained away properly imo, but the Turf Club believed them of course!!!.

Ruprecht, last years Champion hurdle form has got plenty of knocks, with the front 3 Punjabi, Celestial Halo and Binocular all well beaten this year, Binocular winning a micky mouse race on Saturday, I suspect your confidence in Binocular might have something to do with you believing Henderson left a lot to work on, a ploy used by many trainers with Cheltenham in mind, witness the plethora of animals who miraculously re-discover their best form when they arrive at the festival, its a very open Champion and the policy of the clerk of the course at cheltenham is to have the ground on the softer side if there is the possibility of a dry week, cue turn on the taps so as the ground doesn’t dry out too much come Gold Cup Day, but as often happens sometimes they overwater and get heavy rainfall and you end up with a quagmire. I would have fancied a small ew on Sublimity at around 20/1 if you were guranteed good ground, but with the clerks policy of aiming for soft on the first day of the festival it seems very unlikely he will get his ground, Sublimity travelled like the best horse in the Irish champion but couldn’t quicken out of the ground.

Just back to the racing post, no one has mentioned the price of the paper in ireland.

How does £1.80 become €2.50?

I have to say how much I enjoy Patrick’s contributions to these blogs. He is controversial, passionate and knowledgeable. What a great columnist he would make for the new Irish Racing Post and if he was to be paid as much as BOC, he might consider dropping his cloak of anonymity !

here here . Keep it up Patrick.

Good point orby considering sterling is trading at around 88 cent to the euro €2.50 does seem excessive, they’ve a comfort zone there’s no competition in the market as the Post is the only stand alone racing daily, The Sportsman tried to break the monopoly but failed spectaculary, the racing form in the sportsman was like double dutch even for an experienced race reader which probably was the biggest reason for its failure.

I’d say many are saying shut up Derek you’ll only encourage him and would rather have me spit roasting over an open fire, your nice comments are much appreciated all the same Derek.

Irish Field is €3.20 and £2.20

If the euro price is supposed to be cost + a profit margin the sterling price should be about £2.80.

With new Irish Racing Post competing directly with irish Field for same audience and advertisers it is hard to see both making profit.

Irish Field has little chance…hunting ,showjumping, only area that they will cover uniquely…bad publication thats been waiting to be put out of its misery for years.

Difference is VAT. No VAT on books or papers in the UK, but no so here.

Joe with microchipping there isn’t a hope of a ringer even if they don’t scan before the race logically if they take urine samples etc from the winner, I’m sure they will also scan at that stage. I am open to correction though.

Also Joe, any idea what the stewards are paid?

Surely, with this much class, Dunguib deserves to be campaigned on the flat for a season before reverting to hurdles next year, with the Champion Hurdle as the target. He has very little to prove - with a guaranteed faster pace and better jumping we all know he wont be beaten in Supreme. There lies the crux - his jumping needs working on, as Philip Fenton himself has pointed out, so why not give him the opportunity to prove himself on the flat, while working on his jumping for next year.

Taking Dunguib to Cheltenham this year will, at best, prove what we already know - he is a Supreme Novices ‘good thing,’ but at worst it could undermine his confidence as a hurdler, or cause injury. As he proved last year, Dunguib horse is a class apart when racing on the ‘flat.’ So, let this class act follow his bliss for a season.

By the way, I agree with comment about Patrick’s potential to write a controversial and thought provoking racing column, even if the lawyers might have to work overtime checking his copy before it goes to print. You certainly lack for nothing in relation to you passion for the game, Patrick.

“but as often happens sometimes they overwater and get heavy rainfall and you end up with a quagmire”

Patrick, I have to say that seems a gross exaggeration of the facts. I probably havn’t been watching racing as long as you but I think the groundsmen do a magnificent job with the course. Very rarely is it worse than good/soft, if I were the clerk of the course I would take offence at those comments.

“Taking Dunguib to Cheltenham this year will, at best, prove what we already know - he is a Supreme Novices ‘good thing,’ but at worst it could undermine his confidence as a hurdler, or cause injury.”

D.D. - are you saying that the trainer shouldn’t run him in the supreme novices? That makes no sense at all.

I’d agree with Niall regarding the watering as I think they do a good job and the track at Cheltenham drains quite well if there were sudden downpours.

If the ground was good Patrick, I’d be in agreement with you regarding Sublimity as an e.w bet. I like that horse a lot.

Regarding Dubguib on the flat, what rating would he earn and what distance would be ideal? That would be an interesting discussion.

I’m saying that our imaginations have already projected Dunguib’s victory in the Supreme Novices, and justifiably so. A victory will merely be a confirmation of what we already know. The downside is that if his jumping, which is obviously causing his trainer serious concern, were to let him down on the day, it could affect his extraordinary confidence or, worse still, cause injury.

By far the more EXCITING, and safer, option is to test this absolute ‘natural’ on the flat this year before reverting to hurdles and winning the Champion Hurdle next year.

If Dunguib, or any other horse, had come off the flat and performed at this level over hurdles you’ve got to reckon they’d have a rating of 110 plus. Alaivan was rated 106 on the flat and is now as big as 12/1 for the Triumph hurdle. Imagine what Dunguib would do to Alaivan if they met next year?

Am I the only one who thinks Dunguib would be, at least, a Group 3 horse? You kick off in the Listed Saval Beg at Leopardstown, then onwards to the Melbourne cup, six months later, just like media Puzzle and Vinnie Roe. (Taking in that back-end ‘handicap’ they call the Irish St. Leger on the way).

What do the ‘flat experts’ think?

Niall my quagmire reference was just a generalization not aimed at Cheltenham in particular but we have seen it happen where racecourse clerks get it spectaculary wrong.
I know that Cheltenham is one of the better draining tracks, Simon Claisse has been playing russian roulette with the weather in recent years with his obssession with having the ground on the softer side for the first day so the track will dry out naturally but not so much dry out too much for Gold Cup day.
Is Simon Claisse a brilliant clerk of the course or has he got extremely lucky up to now?.
Messing with mother nature can be a dangerous thing.

Considering RITE OF PASSAGE is rated 101 and that DUNGUIB beat him by over 10 lengths (virtually on the bridle) in the Cheltenham bumper, a rating of 110+ as suggested by D.D is not at all fanciful and would certainly entitle him to Group 3 standard at least. There is big prize money to be picked up on the flat for this class of horse - abroad as well as at home - and if DKW could get hold of him I’d say there was every chance he would be aimed at the Melbourne Cup.

Fair enough Patrick, it was shocking what they did at the Curragh this year, but we’ve been through that I suppose.

It would have to be considered one of the greatest horses of all time if it could win a Melbourne Cup and a champion hurdle. That really would be extraordinary. If I was the owner though I would be wary of such a tough schedule. It is an animal at the end of the day, not a machine, even though he sometimes looks like one!!

Would it be ridiculous to throw him in the Gold Cup at Royal Ascot? Probably.

I think that Dunguib has to go to Cheltenham, as its what he has been campaigned at all season and its only a few weeks away now and despite the hurdling doubts he has an excellent chance of winning. I am looking forward to seeing him against the best of his NH Novice peers. I am sure thats what the owners bought him for and want and its their call.

However it would indeed be interesting to see him in a class flat race against the best - perhaps keep in training until June - I am no expert in some of the graded flat races but would he be eligible and of a potential standard to run in the Ascot Gold Cup?

I agree with you on Sublimity Patrick and will probably wait until I see what the ground is like on the day. Still feel Binocular can do it though - no science to my thinking - its more gut than anything. Its wide open and a bit sub standard this year, so all options have to be considered.

I think the champion hurdle is quite strong this year. It’s a very tricky race to have a strong opinion on (I agree about Sublimity for what it’s worth), but the fact that there are a few with the talent to win suggests it’s a decent renewal.

Anybody fancy something to run well (in any of the festival races) which may not be as high profile as most of the horses we have been discussing?

I see Glencove Marina holds an entry in the Ryanair Chase and a rather more fanciful entry in the Gold Cup, now whether the horse takes up any of those entries I don’t know?, but I thought the horse has got a couple of easy introductions after his long lay off, first over hurdles behind footy facts and last time he might have fell at the last behind Thyestes winner Whinstone Boy but Ruby certainly wasn’t exactly knocking him about, the horse is freely available at 50/1 for the Ryanair, its in the lap of the gods if you dabble antepost as the horse might not even travel to the festival, but this horse imo is a winner waiting to happen as he has plenty of top class form from previous seasons and in my eyes he seems to have retained plenty of ability and Mullins no doubt has something big planned for him in the not so distant future, he’s not exactly over the hill as an 8yo.

Fenton says he wouldn’t run him on anything faster than good, that def rules out Ascot and 50/50 Melbourne Cup, Ledger

I see the possibility of a strike is now closer than ever, if the news on this site is anything to go by. Interestingly the introductory paragraph gives the reason as being due to pay and the “slashing” of the integrity budget, but when you read the complete article it only mentions the grievance about the pay cuts and there is no reference to the integrity budget at all. I wonder if the inclusion of the integrity budget is just used for PR and spin?

The following is part of a press release on the Mandate website which was issued on Monday evening at 6pm, (probably leaked by the trade unions on behalf of their 32 members to certain journalists prior to that, in an effort to win the hearts and minds of the 14,500 or so people dependant on the thoroughbred industry and not counting the ordinary decent punter who in essence funds racing, even if indirectly through the government fund) :

“The Turf Club officials have also emphasised that they have extremely serious concerns regarding cuts to the integrity budget which will negatively impact on the standards of:

• Sampling of horses through blood and urine tests;
• Identification of all racehorses on a race day;
• Use of camera facilities.

Michael O’Donoghue, an official with the Turf Club said, “We are very alarmed about what implications these cuts may have on the reputation of Irish horseracing. For example, the failure by the Turf Club to replace two full time officials has resulted in the amount of microchip identifications of all racehorses on a race day being reduced from 313 days to 63 days. What this means is that the Turf Club cannot guarantee that the correct horse is running in a race 80% of the time.

“Other areas where cutbacks may effect standards is the routine sample analysis which will impact on policing of an industry which must be run in accordance with drug free guidelines,” concluded Mr. O’Donoghue.”

What I’d like to know is whether HRI are seeking efficiencies in the integrity budget of up to 15% and if they are, the union say they have identified savings of up to 10 - 15% under their proposal. If that’s the case, then it is surely back to pay as the proposals must have been conditional.

Secondly when did the two full time officials leave their positions? Was it this year or last?

Thirdly a lot of the effects to the integrity listed in the statement above are effects which “may” have an effect. They will either have an effect or they won’t. The officials will become more efficient or they won’t. Maybe it’s impossible for the officials to do a better job (not being smart or sarcastic)

Fourthly are the officials expected to take a 36% cumulative cut from their salaries of a number of years ago, or is this the usual crap of including previously proposed pay increases benchmarked or proposed under previous times in different circumstances and including those percentages, and then working based on what it might have been.

I sympathise with anybody experiencing a pay cut, because to a certain point the employee and their family gets used to a standard of living and I wouldn’t think these officials are rich. But that said, I find it disheartening that 28 out of the 32 officials have voted to strike on an industry employing 14500 people, similar to a few traffic controllers in January and few train drivers of the Dart a few years ago. The Turf Club would also want to wake up and sort this out. If the stewards are thoroughly efficient then pay them appropriately. If they are not, then get people who can be and pay them appropriately. Officials upholding the integrity of racing cannot be poorly paid.

To get back to the blogs subject matter for a moment, Brian wrote:
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Yes, there have been any number of occasions when the Turf Club has made a steaming turd out of apparently straight-forward situations. The question of penalties fitting the crime has been addressed here more than once before.

But equally clear is that taking a pop at authority is always an easy option. There is also the difficulty of policing with one hand tied behind your back in a cultural environment where the automatic reaction for so many people is to reach for their solicitor.
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So the Turf Club in your words Brian have made a steaming turd of it on any number of occasions, and yet you’re defending them because people like me dare to have a pop at them when they have brought most of it on themselves.
I do agree that at times the authorities have one hand tied behind their backs when trying to disprove the plethora of excuses that trainers and jockeys churn out almost conveyor belt like, often in collusion with vets [you would want to be pretty naive to think otherwise], but when they have all the evidence in front of them and the perpetrator is guiltier than Fred West they bottle it everytime.
I don’t buy into the solictor threat Brian, thats just a convenient cop out all you have to do is look across the water and the many individuals that have been banned under the BHA’s own powers because the evidence was irrefutable, the Turf Club refuse point blank to get down and dirty even when they too have irrefutable evidence at their disposal.
Can you ask your Turf Club big wig buddy why this is Brian? [we all know why though, don’t we?], you’re defending of the Turf Club in recent blogs Brian is a little bit scary, considering you’re defence of them has more holes than a Swiss Cheese.

Excellent post CH, I have no doubt that the integrity budget cuts are indeed been used for PR spin. you say CH:

“The Turf Club would also want to wake up and sort this out.
If the stewards are thoroughly efficient then pay them appropriately. If they are not, then get people who can be and pay them appropriately. Officials upholding the integrity of racing cannot be poorly paid.”

I think the best way to sort it out would for the ax blade to fall at the very top at both the HRI & TURF CLUB, as its them who are mainly to blame for the current mess they find themselves in, so easy to point the finger at the goverment when not one of them had the vision to introduce any form of self funding, just sat back and wallowed in the good times and the vast goverment handouts while other sports were virtually starved compared to horse racing, even with the goverment cuts there still doing pretty ok in the broader scheme of things, they’ll get no sympathy whatsoever from the general public and the non racing media at large because the horsey crowd are viewed as spungers, and the main protaganists are all filthy rich tax exiles, so to be honest who can blame the public for thinking that way because most of its true and can’t be refuted.
As I’ve said before its the bottom rung thats usually the main sufferer in theses situations, trainers will soon start putting on the poor mouth to give them the excuse they need to let staff go, while the fat cats at HRI & TC remain in their jobs, they’re hardly going to sack each other!!!, and I wouldn’t say there’ll be any major rush to resign either because they believe its all somebody elses fault and not theirs.

Well done Patrick and CH.
As usual the two of you have poured buckets of common sense over the latest laughable episode in the tragic comedy that is Irish horse racing.

I was complimenting the Racing Post on their new Irish edition but if the Wilie Mullins Sunday column [where he done his level best to put off punters backing Cooldine] and the saccharin coated interview of HRI boss Brian Kavanagh by Tony O’Hehir are anything to go by we’re in big trouble. In a profession where sycophancy has been turned into an art form O’Hehir is the king of all he surveys.
Considering the current climate you would think the Racing Post would have considered a searching Q&A session but not with O’Hehir but Alan Sweetman, maybe Brian Kavanagh is the nicest guy on earth for all I know Tony?, but that should not have been the point of the interview, you’ll have no problem Brian [as you are well aware over the years] getting a racing journalist to write you a brilliant PR piece, the interviewer unashamedly didn’t even try to disguise the fact that it was a blatant PR exercise, I’ve no doubt Tony you two have enjoyed many a sumptuous free lunch down the years.
Kavanagh goes on to say “the record of big race wins for Irish horses over the past decade or so is proof that our policy of good prize-money was successful”. I will provide a link below [one I searched long and hard for] that will dispel this myth and many other myths HRI try to spin.
I will add my two cents worth as regards the prize-money policy of HRI,
In the 2002 Irish Derby High Chapparal won €456,924,
In the 2009 Irish Derby Fame & Glory pocketed over double €927,300, also note sterling was very strong against the euro in 2002 which will give you a good idea as to the massive difference in the space of a few year even taking into account inflation etc.
The 2009 Irish Champion stakes carried a purse of €569,000 to the winner [STS], compare that to the £270,000 STS won for the Eclipse at Sandown which attracted a better field.
Brian if you think that your prize-money policy is [was] successful then tell us why there was not “ONE” overseas challenger for either 2009 Irish Derby and Champion Stakes???, note also there was a total 20 (11) (9) runners between the two races Aiden O’Brien provided 11 of the runners.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/horse-racing/its-a-racing-certainty-and-its-all-done-with-your-money-1698966.html

Well said Patrick… If I may be sycophancy for a moment your recent blogs are very insightful and you are definately upsetting the applecart - “Tell the truth and shame the devil!”. Prizemoney is one of the most overlooked aspects to Irish Racing; it is totally lop-sided and this is the first place that any cuts/savings should be found by HRI. The Coolmore monopoly is a prooving to be a great disincentive for new owners coming into racing and there has been a change in Coolmore policy in recent seasons where they are now contesting handicaps with their lesser lights therby taking up even more of the cream. Should a cap be put on prizemoney won by particular owners in any one season? Their priority is stallion fee’s and they’ll hardly miss a few euro’s of prizemoney! The usual non-sense about a flight of investment would be made of course… nonsense!

Patrick,

I have just read your link to an article in the Independent. This should be compulsary reading for everyone involved in the adminstration of horse racing.

In fact it should be read by every citizen of this country.

To be fair to Brian Kavanagh, he like most others have been campaigning for a self funding model for a number of years. It is easy to blame the government, because it’s the right thing to do. Does it take Labour to highlight the requirement to tackle the offshore betting and to enforce these entities to pay their fair share.

Regarding his comment about prize money, I assume he is referring to the prizemoney for the lower rated races as this was always the view taken to encourage more ordinary owners. Now a good horse has a chance of covering its costs in a year, but this definitely wasn’t the case years ago when most were sold across the water. However I have not read the article so am open to correction. Fair play to Patrick, for showing the differences in prize money between the Champion Stakes and the Eclipse. The difference is very substantial as was the massive increase in prize money in seven years for the Derby but that is taking a large cut in 2010. In fact if prize money was the most attractive aspect of a horse race, then the best milers would head to Turkey before considering any other race. On the cuts side, HRI are not touching the minimum prizemoney, but rather making the biggest cuts to the prizemoney from the Classics, the Group races, the listed races etc on a reducing sliding scale. The following is an article on how it will operate which is essentially HRI’s press release about what they decided:
http://horse-racing.ie/2010/01/horse-racing-ireland-cuts-prize-money-by-10-per-cent/

I’m sorry but I don’t agree with the article from the Independent. To me it is biased against racing and the funding of racing. Racing is one of the few things that we are known internationally around the world for and that’s a fact, not an opinion. We produce the best horses, train the best horses and have the best jockeys and trainers. It is very easy to target non residents and have snipes at them. The Aga Khan and Sheikh Mohammed who as we all know are not Irish have given hundreds of times more to racing in Ireland and to Ireland in general than they have ever taken in prize money. Having a pop at JP McManus is not right. Between the UK and Ireland he must have 150 horses or more in training. That doesn’t exactly come cheap and it also costs money to buy horses which he is not afraid to do. That revenue goes into rural Ireland whether the journalist likes to consider it or not, irrelevant of what department racing falls under. If Irish people for whatever reason chose to be non-resident then that is their right. The free movement of capital is how Ireland emerged from the bloody doldrums (before we made a complete balls of it with the banks, builders, tax incentives in recent years) with free movement into the country of US and foreign capital. Free movement of capital cannot be in one direction only. Yes there is more gambling on English racing than on Irish racing here, but why wouldn’t Ireland retain the taxes, since we lose any tax that the UK exchequer raises off the Irish racing. Likewise I am quite satisfied that racing retains gambling on premiership soccer. The tax on gambling goes towards the subsidy and from memory I think that the increase to 2% will equate to the fund given by the government. So in this instance the people who mostly do have an interest in this sport are paying for it. Sports throughout Ireland get funding for a variety of different sources to include the Lotto. The number of attendances since 2001 are not down by 25,000 unless I’m completely mistaken.

I know this comes across like I’m a member of HRI, but I am not. Sometimes I believe that Brian Kavanagh gets some unfair criticism.

Patrick is it my imagination, or have you become the peoples champion here from originally being the unpopular villain? Fair play for sticking by your convictions, even though we have differing views on some of them.

Yeh I’ve almost got my fifteen minutes of fame CH, but if highlighting the dismissive, nonchalant, apathetic attitude to punters concerns has got me my fifteen minutes on a mere blog, well this shy but opinionated guy is quite happy to wallow in it, because for years I and millions of others have been backing horses and been taken for one hell of a ride, saddle up boys!, the punter is afforded no protection whatsoever from the so called regulators ripped off on course and off course, compounded by the most sickening bunch of sycophantic gravy trainers ever known to mankind, yes stand up the Racing Media!, with the odd exception I may add, ooh do they do my bloody head in. They report a story but dare not question it!, ok when Robert Pires dives in the box for a penalty the daily Mirror & Sun headlines scream cheat!!!, fine a racing journalist can’t come out and scream Cheat even though they know full well that the trainer in question is indeed a cheat [like the vast majority of them], because as we all know horses can’t talk, but there are times when certain controversy can at least be questioned like when the lowly stable staff employee who for some mysterious reason?, somehow managed to accidently stick a syringe that contained a banned substance into Irelands latest potential superstar Dunguibs anatomy, not one of them had the balls to put into print the very questionable circumstances and ask how the Turf Club could even contemplate the excuses put forward by connections, a two year old child wouldn’t buy that story, and I’ve no doubt the racing media didn’t either?, but so protective are they of the gravy train and the possibility of been snubbed by the natives, they bottle it everytime just like the incestual ones. Reading the Racing Post its noticeable that when they write about Dunguib the Punchestown Champion bumper is never mentioned, why is this invertebrates??, is it any wonder the natives will chance their arm at every juncture knowing the regulators will almost apoligise to them when they dish out their meagre punishments and the vast majority of the racing media will just report the story in a few lines and go back to doing what they do best and stick their head in the sand again, not daring to question low and behold Willie or Mouse won’t give them an interview because they wrote a less than flattering article about one of their own, talk about the tail wagging the dog!!!.
CH that independent article was a response to previous criticism from an earlier article, so I would suggest the author done an awful lot of research, ok maybe a little dramatic to get the maximum effect but very hard to refute the arguments put forward.

there’s a little bit inarticle this about the Dunguib “wormer” incident:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/racing/article7017807.ece

I think most wormers are oral pastes/gels or tablets so could well have come from feed. Can wormers affect performance? Did Dunguib really need enhancing? Sound more like carelessness than intent to deceive…which in my view is slightly less of an offense…but still an offense

…………………………………………………………………………
Then, one morning on the gallops, Fenton took a call from the Turf Club. Bad news. A blood test conducted after the Punchestown race had returned an adverse finding. The B sample had yet to be examined but often the B sample is a parachute that never opens.

Traces of a worming agent had been found. It wasn’t performance-enhancing but a horse couldn’t run with this substance in his system. At first they were baffled. Dunguib wasn’t being treated with this wormer. How the hell? Then it dawned on them. Sher Beau in the stable next door was getting the wormer in his feed; his food pot hangs on a wall adjacent to Dunguib’s pot and the small retractable iron grille that divides the stables must have been left open. The space is comfortably big enough for a horse to poke his head through and it wouldn’t have taken much more than a dribble of Sher Beau’s saliva in Dunguib’s feed to cause a problem. Dunguib was disqualified and nearly €39,000 of prize money had to be returned.
…………………………………………………………………….
So it wasn’t a stable employee with a syringe, something I surmised, as is par for the course with The Turf Club as they leave you with no choice most of the time but to surmise,

“The Committee acknowledged that Mr. Fenton was personally innocent of any wrong doing but that he must assume responsibility for the actions of his employees”.

Fenton’s explanation is to be honest Jim laughable, also James, Fenton quite conveniently failed to mention to the interviewer that the horse not only had the wormer in his system but also had Class (A) drug Aminorex a powerful stimulant in his system, Fenton can count his lucky stars he wasn’t facing down the barrel of the Hong Kong Jockey Clubs Cannon, fortunately for him it was only the barrel of the Turf Clubs Water Pistol.
Once bitten twice shy eh Jim?,

http://www.turfclub.ie/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=385&Itemid=34

9 Aminorex a power

Actually the only thing I surmised was it had f/all whatsoever to do with a stable employee!.

There are no real Racing Journalists in Ireland. The vast majority of them are on the HRI gravy train.

Michael Clower was the best. John Martin, who now writes for the Daily Mail and the Goldhawk Column in the Phoniex Mahazine along with Brian O Connor are the best of a sad lot.

The majority sit on the fense. You cant blame them because their wage depends on Horse Racing, so any negative comment is seen as biting the hand that feeds them.

Both the Racing Post and Irish field are controlled by HRI dogma. Both are trained in the Coolmore barn.

The Turf club are like most mafia mobs and im sure the wage structure is something similar [ over paid snobs ].The racing industry in this country is a joke all the good jobs and opportunities seem to be taken by certain families its not what you know but who you know, but thats Ireland for you.

I hear what you are saying Patrick about the Indo journalist, but the article in my opinion was neither fair nor balanced. It was done to hurt and damage the perception of racing in the public’s eyes. I still dispute his statement that 25,000 fewer people attended racing in 08 than in 01. Also he never mentioned how during those years more horses were in training, more race meetings happened and more people were in employment. Anyhow, enough about it.

The link you posted to the Turf Club was about a point to pointer and not Dunguib. From looking at it, I can only guess that in that instance the anti-inflammatory and painkiller hadn’t fully washed out of that horses system. I never heard that Dunguib tested positive for Aminorex. Are you sure of this and was it on the Turf Club website? I did hear about the positive test due to worming, which like the previous poster said is more minor infringement than a stimulant, but an infringement none the less. If it was solely down to worming, then to be fair, why would a journalist bring it up everytime Dunguib’s name is mentioned?

I think the whole confusion highlights something which you have always maintained is required, and that is complete transparency and full documentation of the stewards enquiries, turf club enquiries, findings etc… similar to what happens in Great Britain. That way there is no guessing as to what happened, no guessing as to the explanation put forward by the trainer and no guessing as to why in the opinion of the Turf Club that the penalty handed down does actually fit the crime.

I’ve no doubt CH the independent article was a deliberate attempt to undermine racing but lets be honest he does have a point, especially as to how HRI distributed the money 54% on prizemoney and a measly 2.9% on racecourse improvements etc, Brian Kavanagh did indeed mean the bigger races when he tried to claim his prizemoney policy was successful, yes the Aga and the Sheikhs have pumped plenty of money into Irish racing but they’ve also sucked plenty of it back out, its a “I’ll scratch your back, if you scratch mine” type scenario.

About that link as regards the point to pointer of Fentons that tested positive for bute, you might have noticed that I did say once bitten twice shy! to highlight that the Dunguib positive was not Fentons first time to fall foul of the prohibited substance rule.
Actually CH Aminorex is what the wormer turns into when it starts to break down, check out the link below which will give you a better idea as regards the use of the wormer involved and more imporrtantly the potent effects of aminorex, a real eye opener for the naive and apoligists.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/sport/racing/3155259/Warning-issued-over-use-of-drench

Indo - still think he was wrong, but accepted the point made on the marketing budget rather than the capital budget, if he is indeed correct with his figures. Don’t agree with Brian Kavanagh then about the prize money, if the comment was at the Group 1’s 2’s etc..

Sorry I miss interpreted the posting of the link. I thought that was one with Dunguib. So that I am clear, did the turf club state that the Dunguib tested positive for Aminorex?

Thanks for the link regarding the drenching. There was huge problems in Canada regarding it with the harness racing. When all the testing was done over a two year period everybody was exhonerated. The breakdown to Aminorex in the urine only occured in the injectable form of levamisole phosphate rather than all forms. It took me a while to find it as I read it a couple of years ago, but here is the press release in relation to it :
http://www.succeedequine.net/sdcp_upload/Aminorex%20Release%20FINAL%203-17-07.pdf

http://www.turfclub.ie/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=448&Itemid=34

From your link CH.
…………………………………………………………………………………..
4) Laboratory results indicate that the levels of Aminorex in urine from horses
administered injectable levamisole phosphate parallel those reported in past and
current positive results as handed down by racing authorities.
To summarize, the laboratory results indicate that in our study ONLY the horses
receiving the injectable levamisole phosphate product, either orally or intramuscularly,
resulted in an Aminorex positive result. Aminorex was NOT found in the product itself,
only in the urine of treated horses after administration of this product, and never in the
urine of horses receiving other anthelmetic products.
……………………………………………………………………………..
Hmmm……. very interesting indeed, pretty damning don’t you think CH?.

so the saliva explanation doesn’t explain the Aminorex….do the turfclub have google?

You’ll need industrial ear defenders Jim to protect your lugs from the deafening silence now that its been proven categorically imo that Fenton was telling porky pies.
One things for certain racing won’t inherit a David Walsh type to ruthlessly expose the massive increase in horse doping both here and in Britain, and another thing is certain the well wishers and back slappers will still envelop Fenton such is the mentality to drug cheating in racing, the natives circle the wagons at the slightest hint that one of theirs might be in danger.
Now if one of the invertebrates of the racing media ever grows a spine [apologies to a few honourable exceptions], I would love some plausible answers to the following questions;

[1] If the horse in the stable next door to Dunguib was supposedly? been treated with a drench wormer and it was so remarkably easy for Dunguib to stick his head into the neighbours box, wouldn’t you think that the trainer wouldn’t have had the stable star boxed within a half a mile of a horse been treated? never mind right next door!!.

[2] Why was Fenton treating his horse with a drench that is designed for Sheep, Pigs & Cattle, when there is any amount of wormers designed for horses??.
(While Levamisole was a good drench for a particular type of worm, Grierson said people did not use it on horses for that purpose.)

[3] Mr. Dermot Purcell of BHP Laboratories gave evidence for the Turf Club enquiry, I would presume that Dermot Purcell considering his profession was aware of the Laboratory results [ref CH link] so its fair to say that the Turf Club were in possession of the following information;
(To summarize, the laboratory results indicate that in our study ONLY the horses
receiving the injectable levamisole phosphate product, either orally or intramuscularly,
resulted in an Aminorex positive result). Dunguib tested positive for Aminorex which categorically proves that Fentons story was a load of old cock and bull, so begs the question why the Turf Club believed Fenton and exonerated him of any wrong doing when the lab results are damning?.

[4] Lastly, why are the Turf Club not publishing all the
evidence that is presented at these enquries, by not doing so they are leaving themselves open to very real accusations that they are protecting both themselves and the perpetrators basically they must have something to hide?, they’ve no excuse because their counterparts across the Irish Sea the BHA publish everything down to the minutest detail at their enquiries leaving nobody in any doubt as to why they came to their conclusions. Alan Sweetman has hinted the odd time as regards the Turf Clubs policy of keeping the public in the dark, a bit more effort from the Irish Racing Media to put pressure on the Turf Club to start publishing all the evidence presented at these enquiries would be welcome. Question? from a legal point of view is what the Turf Club are doing by not publishing the evidence into the public domain actually legally binding?, maybe someone with a bit more knowledge than me as regards legal matters might know.

If Ihear any more whinging about micro chips not being scanned I will self combust.It is not a highly skilled job and could be done on every horse entering racecourse stableyards by any supermarket check out attendant for the minium wage.How about the turf club officials publishing their pay rates and expenses so we can give a balanced view.Methinks they are quiet a long way from the minium wage judging from the cars they drive!

that just leaves the question, why dope Dunguib? he hardly needs it…

Patrick, regarding the Turf Club not publishing the evidence in the public domain about enquiries, there could well be a case to be made that it would be available under the Freedom Of Information Act. HRI are governed by this act so it would seem logical that a body like the Turf Club which is wholly funded by HRI would also be governed by the act.

Denis, This same Act could also be used to reveal pay rates of Turf Club officials as they are presumably also paid by HRI.

I
don’t know what the current pay rates are for these Turf Club officials
but the fact that when the odd vacancy arises within their ranks there
are so many applications (many of them from trainers who would love to
have their security of income and pension) tells its own story. Their
expenses, alone, would afford a decent lifestyle. Part of their
complaint, apparently, is that they have to work some Saturdays and
Sundays - what about stable employees, bookmakers’ staff, stall
handlers, etc. who are all being paid a pittance in comparison ? Cop
yourself on lads and start living in the real world.

Cheers JJ, but why should you have to go to all that trouble, its surely no big deal to put all the information up on their website, and it would be no big deal either for a journalist to ask Egan or Byrne why they refuse to put the information in the public domain, I would love to hear their explanations or more to the point excuses!.
……………………………………………………………….
“that just leaves the question, why dope Dunguib? he hardly needs it…”

Comment by Jim — February 12, 2010 @ 3:31 pm
……………………………………………………………….
I suppose if you’re good and you have the powerful stimulant Aminorex in your system good chance you’ll be even better.
You’ll find that a lot of the abuse of these prohibited substances is done to compliment the horses training regime.

Question? from a legal point of view is what the Turf Club are doing by not publishing the evidence into the public domain actually legally binding?, maybe someone with a bit more knowledge than me as regards legal matters might know.

Answer - The Turf Club -like a Golf Club - have no legal obligation to publish evidence of any kind unless it is in their Rules or if it is a Company their Memo and Articles of Associaton . An ordinary memeber of the public would have no legal basis for attempting to enforce this on the Turf Club. However if you were a party to the dispute and felt aggrived by the result an application could be made to the High Court by way of a Judicial Review of the Turf Clubs decision on any number of grounds. But to get a court to force them to publish their hearings - No

Are you saying then DM that The Turf Club is a private organization closed off to the public at large and only members are privy to information?. Considering that the Turf Club recieves its funding from HRI who as JJ says come under the Freedom of Information Act, and considering the Turf Club are the regulatory body of Irish Racing a sport opened to and attended by the general public, and its the Turf Clubs main job [well suppose to be!] to regulate the sport to protect the paying public against the unscrupulous, are you 100% certain DM?.

Patrick if you are unhappy with the decision they came to on the Philip Fenton case you have no real recourse as you have no standing - legally that is , You are not the Complainant or the Respondent as it were , and you are abviously not a member of the Turf Club and I would imagine that the time for appealing the decison is well past. From the evidence it would appear that a wrong decison was reached but it is looks so wrong there must have been more to it on the day. I have attended a few of these hearings and by and large they are as fair as you would get in a court of law and the outcome is near enough to standard legal proofs. If there is any doubt the benefit of any such doubt is given to the accused and I would estimate that is what happened in the Philip Fenton case i.e there was a doubt as to whether any substance was administered deliberately and he got the benefit iof that doubt, however suspicous the stewards may hev been - he was probably lucky on the day

“by and large they are as fair as you would get in a court of law and the outcome is near enough to standard legal proofs”.
……………………………………………………………………………
Come on DM some of the penalties they dish out are farcical, fair enough you’re entitled to a fair hearing, but why then DM do the guilty get away with blue murder everytime, in fact DM Fentons €3,000 fine was by far the highest fine the turf club have ever dished out for a doping offence usually average out at about €200 while bans are non existent, the only reason Fentons fine was more hefty was that the story broke along side the Henderson/Queens horse failed dope test which was making big headlines across the water, and Dunguib was a high profile horse, so the Turf Club knew damn well the public eye was on them so they didn’t want to be seen to be too lenient, a disqualification and 3 grand fine, bloody wow!!. Check the link out below ref the Henderson case from the BHA’s website the information is staggering not a stone was left unturned.

http://www.britishhorseracing.com/resources/about/whatwedo/disciplinary/disciplinaryDetail.asp?item=089819

No the salvia reason does infact check out. The Aminorex is produced in the fluids of a horse given the injectible form of Leavisole phosphate. It can also be detected in the horses salvia of the treated horse and passed to another horse using the same feed bowl. I did read a report on this before, but cannot find it now. It has been tested in a controlled environment.

I do think that the Dunguib positive test was down to human error in the yard.

I am glad to see the Turf Clubs response to Mandate and their side of the story. As I personally expected there appears to be no decrease in testing, sampling, camera work etc.. and they are not seeking a 36% cumulative cut in pay as according to the Turf Club this is the first time a cut to pay has been proposed. So the leaking or shall I say the story of “anecdotal” tales or evidence could be just propanganda eminating from the union ?

So, it appears that after all the intrepid investigating work done by Patrick and CH this week that the Turf Club and Philip Fenton were right all along.

Thanks be to God for that!

It is bad enough that we will all have to hang our heads in shame if Solwhit wins the Champion hurdle, but I couldn’t face Cheltenham if I thought there was a similar skeleton in Dunquib’s closet.

Go on Philip run him in the Champion and we can roar even louder when he beats Solwhit.

You’re an intelligent guy CH, but I noticed from one of your previous posts that you seemed pretty shocked to find out that Dunguib tested positive for Aminorex, and you also got defensive over Fentons point to pointer testing positive, to be honest CH you’re trying to defend the indefensible by trying to say that Fentons cock and bull story is plausible when the evidence for the prosecution is imo signed sealed and delivered.
Yeh it might be hard for you to accept that Irelands great white hope might not have been playing fair all the time, so you are grasping at straws, there is still many out there who will swear blindly that Michelle Smith, Stephen Roche and OJ Simpson are innocent, but as we know CH the prosecution in the Fenton/Dunguib case the incestual ones believed one of the most implausible stories and totally dismissed the damning scientific evidence, the Stud Farmers probaly still believe that all persons who practice science should be burn’t at the stake as witches and heretics.

I told you the silence would be deafening!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btOyj3qM_Dk

tacky ….respect lost..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE0YDImR3Kg&feature=related

Tacky?? what the hell is wrong with a link to a song?, did I just commit mass murder?

Response to the inevitable silence, they’ll all cheer on Dunguib and Philip “who fell foul of the stewards not once, but twice” Fenton, and I lose respect because youtube surfaced, the ÌRONY is not lost on me!.

Patrick, you really seem like you want Dunguib to have cheated rather than a human error. As somebody here points out, why would you bother with a horse that good. He has barely needed to come off the bridle in his races, so why risk cheating?

From reading the posts, CH gave what appears to be a scientific reason behind why the evidence stacks up. You havn’t given any logical response to that argument.

If you’re a fan of horse racing, surely you should be pleased that it appears that one of the biggest stars isn’t cheating?

Exactly

If you’re a fan of horse racing, surely you should be pleased that it appears that one of the biggest stars isn’t cheating?
Comment by Niall — February 14, 2010 @ 1:39 pm
…………………………………………………………………
Isn’t cheating????????????????????????????????????????/
Well I still believe OJ Simpson was guilty what do you think guys cock and bull or science?
The mindset is absolutely incredible?

Niall, I don’t care when? who? where?, until my last dying breath I will expose the biggest fraud that exists in Ireland today, even more fraudulent than the current goverment and belive me that takes some doing,

STAND UP THE IRISH TURF CLUB

Logical reason Niall ?, I think I asked 3[4] questions and not one person can give me a logical answer?, or more to the point cue head in the sand, so Niall drug cheats are ok in racing yeh?

Well, I don’t have the necessary knowledge to answer your questions. I think you would need to do extensive research or be involved as a trainer/vet to be qualified to speak with any authority.

I suppose it just seems that you almost revel in the fact that there was a controversy around Dunguib. Of course, if he really did cheat, then the penalty should have been much more severe, but I do think that it is more likely that it’s human error. Look what happened to the footballer Cannevaro recently, it does happen.

I don’t revel in it Niall, but I can’t stand [as you might have gathered by now] racings nonchalant attitude to cheating in all its forms, from the so called regulators, the media ostriches and the apathetic public.
In any other sport when drug cheats are exposed their various medias destroy them, their regulators punish them severely and the public lose their respect for them, in racing you almost get canonized, such is the easy ride the perpetrators are given, an example as to how much of an easy ride they have been given for donkeys years, was Noel Meades reaction to Carberrys 30 [raceday ban] was draconian, and this was Carberrys SECOND time to fall foul, DRACONIAN he says? for heavens sake!!!.

Err? the lab results prove categorically that Fenton was spoofing, you don’t have to have authority on the matter just be able to read Niall!.
v

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/sport/racing/3155259/Warning-issued-over-use-of-drench

http://www.succeedequine.net/sdcp_upload/Aminorex%20Release%20FINAL%203-17-07.pdf
Comment

testing 123

I don’t revel in it Niall, but I can’t stand [as you might have gathered by now] racings nonchalant attitude to cheating in all its forms, from the so called regulators, the media ostriches and the apathetic public.
In any other sport when drug cheats are exposed their various medias destroy them, their regulators punish them severely and the public lose their respect for them, in racing you almost get canonized, such is the easy ride the perpetrators are given, an example as to how much of an easy ride they have been given for donkeys years, was Noel Meades reaction to Carberrys 30 [raceday ban] was draconian, and this was Carberrys SECOND time to fall foul, DRACONIAN he says? for heavens sake!!!.

Err? the lab results prove categorically that Fenton was spoofing, you don’t have to have authority on the matter just be able to read Niall!.
v

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/sport/racing/3155259/Warning-issued-over-use-of-drench

http://www.succeedequine.net/sdcp_upload/Aminorex%20Release%20FINAL%203-17-07.pdf

I don’t revel in it Niall, but I can’t stand [as you might have gathered by now] racings nonchalant attitude to cheating in all its forms, from the so called regulators, the media ostriches and the apathetic public.
In any other sport when drug cheats are exposed their various medias destroy them, their regulators punish them severely and the public lose their respect for them, in racing you almost get canonized, such is the easy ride the perpetrators are given, an example as to how much of an easy ride they have been given for donkeys years, was Noel Meades reaction to Carberrys 30 [raceday ban] was draconian, and this was Carberrys SECOND time to fall foul, DRACONIAN he says? for heavens sake!!!.

Err? the lab results prove categorically that Fenton was spoofing, you don’t have to have authority on the matter just be able to read Niall!.
v

Parick you dont seem to get it do you ? The lab results prove what the lab results prove but thats it - they do not prove that Philip Fenton was spoofing as you suggest. There is a concept in criminal law called “mens rea” or intent. You will recall the recent wife killing case where intent could not be proved so the lesser charge of manslaughter was reached as the prosecuton could not show intent. The analogy is same here hence the lesser fine , Until you grasp this concept - which most ordinary people can including jurys as we know - you will not understand what most other bloggers here can understand - intent

Well it certainly doesn’t disprove it, if there was 99% certainty and 1% doubt the Turf Club would dismiss the 99% in favour of their native appeasement policy, when you talk common sense and give strong opinions you’re accused of cheap shots.
Rather than stick my head in the sand like the rest of you I think I’ll go and gouge my eyes out and stick hot pokers in my ears, you get the feeling you might as well be talking to a brick wall.

Patrick, I wasn’t getting defensive about the link on the bute results on the pointer. Why would I? I only gave an opinion.

I also asked about the Aminorex, because I hadn’t heard that it was reported as such. You provided the link, which clarified it. Thank you.

Nothing proves that Philip Fenton was spoofing the turf club as a horse doesn’t need to be actually injected with the injectible form of Leavisole Phosphate to give a positive result for Aminorex.

The reason trainers, owners etc.. use injectable wormers or drenches is simply down to costs. During the summer for my own horses, it cost me with the worming pastes on one occassion over €200 for nine horses. The next time I got the vet to inject them when he was out and it only cost me an extra €20 or so on top of the fees associated with the call out. A friend has over a 100 horses and all are injected for worms. Personally I’ll never waste money on the pastes again and I’ll either get the vet or inject them myself.

Fair enough CH, I know the horse doesn’t have to be injected but from my reading of it the horse has to be given the injectable form directly, basically syringed through the mouth, Fentons explanation is very questionable not only does it seem pretty implausible in the first place but it seems he would want to have eaten a copious amount of his neighbours feed to test positive if in fact Sher Beau was in fact getting the injectable form in his feed instead of the paste. Out of curiosity CH what was the name of the wormer both you and your friend use, and can you explain to me why Fenton would be using a drench that was designed for use in Livestock and not horses, as you’ve seen with the Canadian harness racing and in New Zealand some trainers have been using this wormer for less than ethical reasons.

My friend uses Ivomec which is suitable for cattle and sheep. It used to be also recommended for horses at one stage, or so I believe. Maybe it was relabelled due to the discussion we are having. A vet told him before that it is a very effective wormer, and judging by the condition of his horses, it most certainly is.

My vet used an injectible wormer into the skin and the horses never flinched. It was easier and quicker than even the oral paste. I cannot remember the name of it, but it wasn’t Ivomec and was also labelled as suitable for horses.

If I’m wrong regarding the wormer my mate uses, I’ll repost after I see him at the weekend.

that was me

Levamisole has been used in dogs as a microfilaricide to treat Dirofilaria immitis infection. It has also garnered much interest as an immunostimulant in the adjunctive therapy of various neoplasms.

Because of its narrow margin for safety and limited efficacy against many equine parasites, levamisole is not generally used in horses.
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So why was Fenton using it?????????????

http://www.elephantcare.org/Drugs/levamis.htm

This is a very broad definition for a Prohibited Substance and reflects the determination of virtually all racing authorities to ensure that horses run free of the effects of any drugs. It includes all drugs, and many supplements, whether they are of natural origin or not. The only drugs which we monitor, but do not call as positives, are anti-infectious agents, that is antibiotics, ringworm treatments and wormers. However:

Procaine penicillin (white injection, looks like milk) is prohibited since procaine is a local anaesthetic
Levamisole, a wormer used in farm animals, is prohibited in horses where it is sometimes used to stimulate the immune system
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Taken from the excellent BHA website, I’m confused??? if Levamisole is not banned then is the above statement a misprint?, if its true that levamisole is actually a banned substance then Fenton should have had the book thrown at him, if you believe that Fentons story was true then the Brothers Grimm didn’t tell fairy tales.